How many cutscenes are "too many"?

[GermanyXItaly1000 16]

This is in general, for any RPG Maker engine.

 

I love using the autorun function to run a cutscene, whether to show a scene developing a relationship between characters or to further push the story of the game along, or just to enhance it.

 

In a horror RPG like Corpse Party: Blood Covered - Repeated Fear, many of the cutscenes are there to enhance the gaming experience and bond you with the characters, let you get to know them, to showcase gore and horror, etc.

 

But my question is, how many cutscenes should there be? And what's the point when the player decides there are too many to be anything but troublesome?

[dolarmak 23]

personally i find cut scenes can be a great way to show the relationships of the characters, however that must be weighed against the game play. you defiantly can not have more cut scenes than game play. so if you find your game is too heavy eliminate the weakest ones. 

 

never make cut scenes for the sake of making cut scenes. Make sure information in the cut scene is relevant to the story and try to keep them under 2 minutes at a shot. That can be hard because not every one reads as fast as some of us can, but try and take an average look at your cut scene and unless it's super important shorten it.

 

there is no real limit, but i'd even go so far to say don't make more that 1/4 of the game cut scenes. I've played some games where for nearly the first 2 hours were cut scenes with a brief walking part maybe 3 times...that sucked i never played it again even after my cousin swore it got better after that,,,it was just too much. make sure the player feels useful. 

[Marked 197]

It's impossible to give a figure as this question is entirely contextual. There are two answers I can think of. First, when it starts to be more of a movie than a game, and second when your players start trying to skip the cutscene or press enter over and over to get through it faster without reading. As long as you can keep the player happy, engaged and interested then you haven't reached your limit. In RPG Maker though that threshold is going to be quite low, because at least for me, I get bored and uninterested very quickly with text boxes.

[GermanyXItaly1000 16]

never make cut scenes for the sake of making cut scenes.

 

Definitely not. I feel the best time to make a cutscene is when I feel emotionally involved in the relationships of the characters, or in the situation. Cutscenes that are made just for the sake of it tend to be boring, and rarely thought out as well as the rest of the game's cutscenes are. 

 

Like a dreaded filler that no one cares about watching--just get back to the show and main story already.

 

It's impossible to give a figure as this question is entirely contextual. 

 

I did mean this question specifically for the RPG Maker engines. :)

 

First, when it starts to be more of a movie than a game, and second when your players start trying to skip the cutscene or press enter over and over to get through it faster without reading. As long as you can keep the player happy, engaged and interested then you haven't reached your limit. In RPG Maker though that threshold is going to be quite low, because at least for me, I get bored and uninterested very quickly with text boxes.

 

I'd really like to experiment a little, and reach the point where I'm able to make a cutscene that's maybe five minutes long... while still engaging the player in the dialogue and text. Sometimes I found it was possible when you set the atmosphere better--with lighting, music, graphics, etc. Just to draw the player in and keep them there long enough for them to get the information they need and not get too turned off by the length of the scene.

 

Even though some cutscenes are relatively short in a few games I've played, at those times I was wholly uninterested in the story (and even the gameplay) and just clicked through without care for reading properly. Granted, those are just for the occasional RPG Maker anime fangames I find on deviantART, and very few of those have a lot of good effort invested in them.

 

But at times when there was a good setting and mood, I found myself immersed in even ten minute long scenes.

 

So for me, the map and the atmosphere have a huge effect on whether I'm willing enough to go through those long cutscenes.

[Heretic86 25]

Then learn from their mistakes.

 

Why was the story uninteresting?  But more importantly, if it was so uninteresting to begin with, why did you play the game?

 

Long cutscenes can be fine as long as they are rewarding for the player.  Ive played enough bad RM games to know that too much of the dialogue is done for exposition purposes only.  You are so and so and need to go from here to there, then they blather on giving way more information than I want.  Youre given the history of everything all at once, starting with the dinosaurs and a big rock and pretty much everything in between.

 

Cutscenes are Plot Devices

 

Just about every scene in a movie advances the plot in some way shape or form.  For RPG purposes, usually the only interaction the player gets is going here to there, then pausing for a while to give a logical or emotional reason to progress to the next part of the story. 

 

Movies are typically broken up into three acts.  A first act provides for character introduction and a bit of back history on who the people are and where they are coming from.  Second act occurs once most main characters have been identified, and is where the major portion of the Conflict takes place.  Third act is Resolution to the Conflict.  There arent exactly clearly defined "lines" between the first, second, and third acts.  But in general, these same Acts apply also to most story telling video games, but Act 2 is generally quite a long one as thats the meat of most gameplay.

 

A lot of the RM games that I've played that I think suck have a repeated habit of trying to cram Act 1 entirely into the dialogue of ONE NPC.  This is a massive mistake.  What happens is it treats the Character Introduction Act down a players throats as if it is something very important, but does not allow the player to discover who the characters are at their own pace.

 

And Pace is really what it boils down to.

 

Every moving has a certain pacing.  Some movies are slow.  Others are very fast paced.  You can usually determine the average pace of a movie by the number of Cuts there are.  In slow expositional scenes (exposition = lots of talking), the Pace matches the Cuts.  Long cuts, then camera changes, another long cut, more dialogue, etc.  Fast paced movies have very short cuts, where each Cut lasts maybe a single second.  So for a high action three minute scene thats 1 second for each cut, or 60 x 3 for a total of 180 cuts for a single scene.  Note: scene, not Act.  If you want a fast paced game, expect to have a lot of content.  Fortunately, RPGs are a bit slower pace, but still require a lot of content.

 

So heres the thing.  Games boil down to roughly 3 Acts (storytelling games anyway), and each Act needs for the player to feel as if they are a part of the enviornment you put them in at their own pace.  If you want something to be high paced, then push the player forward, but dont take that control from the player.  Give them a reason to move forward and prevent them from being able to go back through a "Logical Plot Device".  Destroy the bridge, its too dangerous to go back, tell them there is nothing for them back that way, push them forward.

 

Most RPG games start off at a low speed Pace, then ramp things up as their goals become more clearly identified.  And thats another thing, players need to discover what their goals are at their own pace.  Let them discover it for themselves by being the ones that at least trigger cutscenes, or expositional dialogue when appropriate.  Oddly enough, a small sense of Mystery is a very compelling reason for a player to both progress the story forward at their own Pace, but dont over-do the Mystery.  Make sure I know where I am supposed to go or what I am supposed to do, but dont tell me everything all at once.

 

The Pace of the Game is what determines how long you can make a Cutscene.  It is possible to make really really long but interesting Cutscenes, or very short and powerful Cutscenes!  Holy shit!  Those bastards just took my girlfriend!  Im comin to save you!  For something like a Character Betrayal, a bit more expositional dialogue is needed.  Why did such and such character betray either side and join your party / betray your party.  And Im sorry, but two minutes is not enough time for Major Scenes.  Other times, its just too much.  I'd suggest trying to reserve anything longer than a minute or two (without good reason) for later in the game.  Players want to get playing as quickly as possible, and if youre able to hold their interest until the point where a longer Cutscene plays out, that is when the Cutscene is rewarding for the player to watch.

 

Use Plot Tools

 

Not everything needs to be told in a Linear fashion.  Get the player interacting with the game as quickly as possible.  If this means you cut out a ton of material that the player needs to know in order to advance the plot, give that same information in a different way.  Use a "Flashback" or a "Memory" later when the history becomes more relevant.  Use other NPCs with creative writing to provide that information.  Instead of giving a Narrative Exposition of "your father died now you want revenge", thats absolutely dry.  Dont tell me what I should feel, give me a reason to feel it.  Replace the "your father died" crap with a way the player can discover something the character already knows.  Have another NPC say "I know your fathers funeral was only last week, are you sure youre ready to go back to work?" or something to that effect.  Have the player discover that the characters father was murdered in a way that is interesting for the player.  Another NPC "we're still looking for your fathers murderer".  The character already knows this, but the expositional dialogue gives reason and purpose for such an NPC to make such a statement, as well as informing the player that their father was murdered.  This is the "Discovery" aspect that makes so many RM games just suck.

 

Act 1 is for filling in the player on what is currently relevant

Act 2 is the player actively pursuing the main goal of the game

Act 3 provides the player with resolution

 

Since not everything is Linear, in either games or movies, you actually have opportunity to switch back and forth between every Act as needed.  Most RPG games have multiple towns, and each town provides a new goal for the player to strive for while progressing the story forward.  This means you'll actually go back to Act 1 as soon as a player enters a new town.  There are new characters to introduce, new things the character should learn about at that time, and sets the current Goal the player will try to achieve in Act 2.  Act 2 is typically where most battle stuff will occur.  Act 3 is resolution to battle, either by progressing the story forward and putting the player in a new town, or returning to the previous town with a "mission accomplished" type of reward.

 

TV series will always use Act 1 for the very first episode of the show.  Once the audience (player) is familiar with who is who, then it moves on to Act 2.  Act 2 may actually take up an entire season.  It depends on the style of the show.  Some shows that dont require you to have seen what happened last episode will plug all 3 Acts into one show.  Something like NYPD Blue.  Most people are already familiar with the main characters.  Act 1 introduces the new character, Act 2 main characters go after the newly introduced bad guy, Act 3 provides resolution.  Other styles of shows like "Lost" or "Once Upon a Time" are extremely complex.  Characters are not Black and White, and change "sides" constantly.  New characters are also introduced.  "Once Upon a Time" is suggested because we all know the Wicked Witch, and the character is much deeper than "Im evil, dont throw water on me".  But not everything about said character is given to the audience all at once.  Relevant backstory is provided as an enhancement of Act 1, Act 2 is the current conflict, and Act 3 again is resolution to conflict.  If one were to try to write out an episode of Once where there is 35 minutes of backhistory on the Wicked Witch and why she became evil, then Act 2 is to walk across the street to Act 3 where so and so throws some water on her, it would be garbage.  Why?  The Acts are not properly paced or balanced because they are disproportionate.

 

Pacing.  Balance.  Player Reward.  Incentive.  Plot Device.  Plot Tools.  Mystery.  Challenge.  Exposition.  These are all tools that Game Creators forget about, and tend to focus very strictly on the technical aspects.  My script can do this neat graphical thing.  Yeah, thats really nice and I've already written a crapton of badass scripts.  Players arent as interested in scripts or cool eventing as you are.  What they are interested is in Rewarding Gameplay.  Some people also just flat out dont like RPG games.  Say hello to your Call of Duty crowd that will probably think anything longer than 2 minutes is too long.  Then the hardcore RPG gamers will ask you "what the hell was that all about?" because they were given absolutely zero backstory in order to satisfy the Call of Duty crowd.  It really depends on who you want as your audience.  And if youre looking to make something thats more action than story, youre really playing with the wrong set of technical tools, however the storytelling tools remain the same, but are used in different proportions.

 

One of the hardest things to figure out is Player Reward.  And I can tell you that if you are listening to someone that likes RPG games but does not play for the story, then you need to stop listening to them and listen to your own gut.  Look past how cool your scripts are.  Look past how intriguing you think some crafting system is.  Look at it from the players point of view.  Could they be easily confused by something?  Do they have sufficient motivation?  Was the motivation given to the player in a way that is really an incentive and isnt just there for you to play "fill in the blanks"?  Does the player think that trying to achieve the goal you set out for them as incentive enough to keep playing?  If you play too long, does the player suffer from Battle Fatigue?  Is it an appropriate time for you to tell the player a little bit more about what you want them to discover?  Are they interested in discovering it to begin with?  There are so many things to consider, and so many things people dont consider at all that it absolutely ruins games.  Did you read this entire longwinded post?  Did I do my job of holding your attention to remind you of the tools you have at your disposal?  But most importantly, if you look at your entire package from the perspective of the Player, would you find your own game rewarding to play?

 

I made a Demo a long time ago, something short and sweet and based entirely around how to do a Cutscene.

 

http://downloads.chaos-project.com/heretic86/Once/Once%28Demo%29.exe

 

Theres two parts to this Demo.  Northern Forest and Lightgeist Mountain.  Northern Forest has the Cutscene you should check out.  The Mountain was a big mapping experiment to see how complex of a maze I could put together but contains no Cutscenes.

 

Some have described the Cutscene I did in the Demo as too long.  Others want more story and to find out what happens next.  This thing is quite old, and has a couple reported bugs that I could not reproduce, so expect minor glitchyness.  The Cutscene was something I literally just slapped together, then everything else grew around it, I polished it, and well, you'll see once you try it out.  Scripts in the Demo were marked as off limits, but they are all out of date anyway, and in the Collection in my sig if youre interested.

 

I've worked on the technical sides of Film and Broadcast most of my adult life, so this isnt stuff that Im just coming up with, this is stuff that comes from the Professionals.

 

It is beyond my ability to tell you how long a Cutscene should be.  But what I can teach you is how to make your game not suck.  If any game is poo, then 10 second Cutscenes are too long.  If your game is really good, people will want cutscenes, and tolerate really long Cutscenes.  And these are all things that depend on you.

[GermanyXItaly1000 16]

It is beyond my ability to tell you how long a Cutscene should be.  But what I can teach you is how to make your game not suck.  If any game is poo, then 10 second Cutscenes are too long.  If your game is really good, people will want cutscenes, and tolerate really long Cutscenes.  And these are all things that depend on you.

 

Holy--

 

Dude, this post. It's a long-ass post, but I read all of it, and let me just say that's some pretty damn good advice. Dear God, that's a lot of time into writing this.

 

Everything a writer/director/game maker needs to know. I will be rereading this over and over and archiving it into my mind.

This is useful for pretty much anything writing-related.

 

Now I know how to make my games not suck. :P

[Heretic86 25]

Is a long-ass post any different than a game with too much dialogue?  Depends on who you ask.  If someone finds something interesting, they'll keep reading the post or playing the game.  If they're not interested, one sentence is too much.

 

Learning how to make games not suck unfortuantely practically requires that you make some games that DO suck.  Its mostly for experience.  I tried this, but it didnt pan out so well, and that way was much simpler and far more effective.  This is why being able to learn from failure is important.  Failure doesnt mean "give up", it means it is an opportunity to learn.

 

Edison would have told you so many years ago, "No I dont know how to make a lightbulb yet, but I sure as hell can tell you a thousand ways to not make a lightbulb".  Words of wisdom to remember.

 

And I am glad you appreciated my effort.  Its a bit easier when you type a hundred words a minute tho...

[Marked 197]

We should add it to the tutorials section :>

[zahraa 26]

Yeah, I agree. Thank you Heretic, It was very enjoyable to read. I like how you compared a movie with a video game :thumbsup: