Feedback on moderation

[Knuckles 1]

I would like to present my feedback on how some of this board's moderators take action on disputes. In My forum, RMXP For You: Post #58, the OP supposedly double-posted, however the moderator both deleted the post in question AND publically exposed the issue which should have been done privately via PM. Why? It would trigger confusion among the general public, as evident in here. My point is if you delete a post, then deal with the member in private instead of littering a topic about it. It is pretty damn simple.

[Kiriashi 117]

I had warned that member via PM previously.

 

The system works like this: PM > Post > Increase warn level. Is it wrong for me to enforce the rules? The point I made didn't come across in the PM far enough to the member, so I did it in public.

 

After rereading the post, it does seem a little harsh. I apologize for that. But Knuckles, isn't your point here that things like this should be dealt with privately? Then why are you not PMing Marked and I or just contacting me and telling me. You posted this in public.

 

 

EDIT: I also realize that the entire post I wrote is not there. I don't know why that is, but I've fixed it now.

[Knuckles 1]

I posted this topic because this is the feedback forum. If this topic shouldn't be posted here, then what should? Positive feedback and sugar-coated negative feedback? This topic isn't entirely against public-posted warnings, however if your public warning is targeted toward a non-existent (deleted) post then what sense does it make to the members? If this is the system to abide by, then at least explain what moderation action you've taken against a particular post, a deletion or modification. That way you will make sense.

 

EDIT: I don't recall any abolishing against double-posting in the board rules. Perhaps the rule is posted in an obscure location, or you weren't aware that double-posting is accepted.

[Kiriashi 117]

I posted this topic because this is the feedback forum. If this topic shouldn't be posted here, then what should? Positive feedback and sugar-coated negative feedback? This topic isn't entirely against public-posted warnings, however if your public warning is targeted toward a non-existent (deleted) post then what sense does it make to the members? If this is the system to abide by, then at least explain what moderation action you've taken against a particular post, a deletion or modification. That way you will make sense.

 

EDIT: I don't recall any abolishing against double-posting in the board rules. Perhaps the rule is posted in an obscure location, or you weren't aware that double-posting is accepted.

 

 

How is it not clear what I did and why? I told him that he shouldn't double post unnecessarily.

 

And just because something is mentioned in the rules doesn't mean its accepted. Do you think it would be okay to make everything that's not in the rules allowed?

 

No, it isn't listed in the rules. And therefore I wouldn't have altered his warn level or something like that. All I did was ask him not to do that. His second post was 47 minutes after the first one, and was one sentence. There is no reason for that one sentence to be in a whole 'nother post. It's common courtest on the internet to not double post. Double posting is allowed on the forums, in the case that that new post is adding new information to the topic that isn't already there. [Taken from the Necroposting rule] There's also no reason to bump with a double post because there is a bump button in the top right of all topics.

 

Another thing, Eco and I are good friends; he knows I mean no aggression towards him. All I'm doing is cleaning up the forums, whether that consists of enforcing the rules or making sure members don't do something that isn't exactly something that should be done on the forums, regardless of the fact that the thing done was mentioned in the rules.

[Knuckles 1]

Do you think it would be okay to make everything that's not in the rules allowed?

Yes, because if a rule isn't listed in the books then fundamentally the rule doesn't exist and you have no right to act upon it as a moderator. A multitude of forums allow double-posting EVEN if it's mere seconds later. Since this isn't one of them then it is the administration's fault for not listing it.

 

Another thing, Eco and I are good friends; he knows I mean no aggression towards him.

Not concerned about your aggression.

[Kiriashi 117]

Yes, because if a rule isn't listed in the books then fundamentally the rule doesn't exist and you have no right to act upon it as a moderator. A multitude of forums allow double-posting EVEN if it's mere seconds later. Since this isn't one of them then it is the administration's fault for not listing it.

 

So what if it doesn't exist? If we went by your thinking of how our rules work, then don't you think that maybe there would be a lot of crap in the forums?

 

and you have no right to act upon it as a moderator.

 

I have no right? I give so much of my time to help make this site a good one, flourishing with content pleasing all members. I volunteer myself to clean up the trash, and you say I have no right to tell members how to be better members? That's my whole damn job. Why do you insist on preventing me from doing my job here?

 

All I want to do is help. That's all I have done here, and I think other members would agree. Knuckles, you are obviously a very smart person; your posts are very intelligent and you backup all of your opinions. I envy that. It's something I wish all the members here could have a bit more. Why then do you use this talent of yours to put me down?

 

This isn't even that big of a deal. I've seen other moderators on this site in the past warn members in the public of the forums, and in one instance in particular I remember Marked himself telling a member not to double post unnecessarily. There are many, many cases in which double posting is okay. But not like he did it. Whose to say, as a part of the staff, I shouldn't ask another member not to do something. How I see it, the moderators are supposed to do what the rules don't.

[Tomo2000 60]

Kiriashi does have a good point. Kiriashi is always helping people and helping the forum. And some points are made public such as "Dont double post unnecessarily" so that, one, you wont have to send a million PMs every time you log on and, two, so other people read them. That's what RULES are about. I remember on the PokePlushies forum there was a subforum called "READ RULES FIRST BEFORE POSTING" and there about 10 topics containing rules. We obviously dont have one of those but the rules should be reletively obvious but, as proven, not to everyone.

[Ecowolfsteen 14]

So what if it doesn't exist? If we went by your thinking of how our rules work, then don't you think that maybe there would be a lot of crap in the forums?

 

 

 

I have no right? I give so much of my time to help make this site a good one, flourishing with content pleasing all members. I volunteer myself to clean up the trash, and you say I have no right to tell members how to be better members? That's my whole damn job. Why do you insist on preventing me from doing my job here?

 

All I want to do is help. That's all I have done here, and I think other members would agree. Knuckles, you are obviously a very smart person; your posts are very intelligent and you backup all of your opinions. I envy that. It's something I wish all the members here could have a bit more. Why then do you use this talent of yours to put me down?

 

This isn't even that big of a deal. I've seen other moderators on this site in the past warn members in the public of the forums, and in one instance in particular I remember Marked himself telling a member not to double post unnecessarily. There are many, many cases in which double posting is okay. But not like he did it. Whose to say, as a part of the staff, I shouldn't ask another member not to do something. How I see it, the moderators are supposed to do what the rules don't.

He's right there. All he does is help out with this community. And..Yes. It was out of the line for me to double post like that, but, sometimes, I can be a bit idiotic and not notice what I have done. I feel like this is all my fault that you guys are getting in an argument. Please, stop this. Let's put this behind us and move on. OK?

[Blackbound 4]

Kiriashi does everything within his power to help others. He will remove the second post but he wont remove the request to not double post unneccessarily.

 

I own 3 forums and I only allow double posting under the following conditions:

 

1: bumping an old topic that needed to be bumped (with the exception of posts in a land of dead posts)

 

2: Updates to programs

 

3: Stories and writing works.

 

Other than the above I see no reason to double post.

[FranklinX 37]

I do believe warnings should be kept in private. However, telling someone to stop doing something in public is not a problem. Telling someone to stop is TELLING EVERYONE to also not do that action. Telling someone to stop something is not telling people if the person revived a warning.

[Kiriashi 117]

Kiriashi does have a good point. Kiriashi is always helping people and helping the forum. And some points are made public such as "Dont double post unnecessarily" so that, one, you wont have to send a million PMs every time you log on and, two, so other people read them. That's what RULES are about. I remember on the PokePlushies forum there was a subforum called "READ RULES FIRST BEFORE POSTING" and there about 10 topics containing rules. We obviously dont have one of those but the rules should be reletively obvious but, as proven, not to everyone.

 

You've made a great point as well about the PMs. Having rules all over the place isn't nearly as good as having an active staff to help out.

 

He's right there. All he does is help out with this community. And..Yes. It was out of the line for me to double post like that, but, sometimes, I can be a bit idiotic and not notice what I have done. I feel like this is all my fault that you guys are getting in an argument. Please, stop this. Let's put this behind us and move on. OK?

 

Thanks for understanding Eco. >.<

 

 

There's no reason for Knuckles to apolgize to me. I do apologize though for causing so much drama. And sorry if I offended you by asking you not to double post in public. We all make mistakes. Especially you! (lol JK)

 

Kiriashi does everything within his power to help others. He will remove the second post but he wont remove the request to not double post unneccessarily.

 

I own 3 forums and I only allow double posting under the following conditions:

 

1: bumping an old topic that needed to be bumped (with the exception of posts in a land of dead posts)

 

2: Updates to programs

 

3: Stories and writing works.

 

Other than the above I see no reason to double post.

 

Again another addition that is accentuates the point I was trying to make. Those are all reasons to double post; Eco's post did not fall under one of those.

 

 

I do believe warnings should be kept in private. However, telling someone to stop doing something in public is not a problem. Telling someone to stop is TELLING EVERYONE to also not do that action. Telling someone to stop something is not telling people if the person revived a warning.

 

Exactly. And I had also told him in a PM not to do it, so it's understandable to tell him in the public of the forums.

[Ecowolfsteen 14]

Thanks for understanding Eco. >.<

Eheh. Yeah. Your welcome. Sorry about this. This topic is getting out of hand over a little teeny weeny double post...I actually think it's silly. And besides, Knuckles should've told you about this in a PM then blowing it all out of proportion here. Stick with the PM's guys, lol. :alright:

[Rook 0]

Kiriashi is a kind and generous staff member, whose prone to a good deed now an then for which he gains gratitude. He is also a friendly person, and appeals to the better interests of the members.

 

 

In this case, his actions abide by the rules, however he is only one person, and if this discussion and feedback topic is to be a discussion and feedback topic rather than an attack on one member in particular, we should be looking at all staff and deciding whether we are happy with the current systems. If not, we should work together to modify them.

[Kiriashi 117]

Eheh. Yeah. Your welcome. Sorry about this. This topic is getting out of hand over a little teeny weeny double post...I actually think it's silly. And besides, Knuckles should've told you about this in a PM then blowing it all out of proportion here. Stick with the PM's guys, lol. :alright:

 

I think he wanted to make his point stand out a bit more to me, which is why he didn't PM me.

 

Kiriashi is a kind and generous staff member, whose prone to a good deed now an then for which he gains gratitude. He is also a friendly person, and appeals to the better interests of the members.

 

 

In this case, his actions abide by the rules, however he is only one person, and if this discussion and feedback topic is to be a discussion and feedback topic rather than an attack on one member in particular, we should be looking at all staff and deciding whether we are happy with the current systems. If not, we should work together to modify them.

 

Aww.. Thank you very much Rook.

 

I hope Knuckles didn't mean to direct his point at me in particular but it does seem that way. >.<

[Ecowolfsteen 14]

I hope Knuckles didn't mean to direct his point at me in particular but it does seem that way. >.<

Yes, Yes it does, When it was really my fault. I double-posted. Got warned with a PM, Did it again and then got warned publicly. It's not that big of a deal.

[Knuckles 1]

So what if it doesn't exist? If we went by your thinking of how our rules work, then don't you think that maybe there would be a lot of crap in the forums?

Moderator jobs exist for the sole purpose to clean-up forums based on the rules. If posts contain offensive content, unlawful material, or otherwise posts that violate the proper etiquette of posting then cleaning-up is done according to the moderator's role. This, on the other hand, is something you just simply don't like and is a problem. Common sense.

 

All I want to do is help.

Excellent. When web asshats like Knux criticize your actions then you're quite defensive.

 

Knuckles, you are obviously a very smart person; your posts are very intelligent and you backup all of your opinions. I envy that. It's something I wish all the members here could have a bit more. Why then do you use this talent of yours to put me down?

Constructive criticism? Not like I am here calling you a poor moderator. Perhaps you're a very good moderator, but when you do something your cohort perceives as wrong expect the Hurricane B to tear a few shingles off the roof of your home.

 

This isn't even that big of a deal. I've seen other moderators on this site in the past warn members in the public of the forums

Read one of my previous entries in this thread for an explanation.

 

and in one instance in particular I remember Marked himself telling a member not to double post unnecessarily.

Then it needs to be written in the rules, so any future moderation of this would be perfectly justified.

 

There are many, many cases in which double posting is okay. But not like he did it. Whose to say, as a part of the staff, I shouldn't ask another member not to do something. How I see it, the moderators are supposed to do what the rules don't.

We have an incomplete rules document. A remarkable common sense overkill.

[Knuckles 1]

Kiriashi does have a good point. Kiriashi is always helping people and helping the forum. And some points are made public such as "Dont double post unnecessarily" so that, one, you wont have to send a million PMs every time you log on and, two, so other people read them. That's what RULES are about.

I have a lot of respect for Kiriashi and this community as a whole. That respect does not protect anybody from receiving brutal honesty when I see nonsense.

 

He's right there. All he does is help out with this community. And..Yes. It was out of the line for me to double post like that, but, sometimes, I can be a bit idiotic and not notice what I have done. I feel like this is all my fault that you guys are getting in an argument. Please, stop this. Let's put this behind us and move on. OK?

Not your fault at all.

 

Eheh. Yeah. Your welcome. Sorry about this. This topic is getting out of hand over a little teeny weeny double post...I actually think it's silly. And besides, Knuckles should've told you about this in a PM then blowing it all out of proportion here. Stick with the PM's guys, lol. :alright:

Teeny weeny anything is irrelevant. This is the moderation taking action on something perfectly justified according to the rules and I am posting my feedback in the feedback forum.

 

Kiriashi is a kind and generous staff member, whose prone to a good deed now an then for which he gains gratitude. He is also a friendly person, and appeals to the better interests of the members.

 

 

In this case, his actions abide by the rules, however he is only one person, and if this discussion and feedback topic is to be a discussion and feedback topic rather than an attack on one member in particular, we should be looking at all staff and deciding whether we are happy with the current systems. If not, we should work together to modify them.

Brutal honesty and constructive criticism do not equal personal attacks.

 

I hope Knuckles didn't mean to direct his point at me in particular but it does seem that way. >.<

Nope. If I've seen another moderator conducting the same then I would've criticize him as well.

[FranklinX 37]

Dude you just double posted within 18 minutes. <_< Are you trying to bait Kirishi? He just told someone not to double post, and now you just did it. You also know for a fact what he said about not double posting?

[Knuckles 1]

Dude you just double posted within 18 minutes. <_< Are you trying to bait Kirishi? He just told someone not to double post, and now you just did it. You also know for a fact what he said about not double posting?

Yes sir. I very well did double-post, and I firmly stand by the fact it is within my privileges to do so as long as there is no rule abolishing it.

[Marked 197]

No, actually knuckles you're wrong. Just because it is not written doesn't mean it's not against the rules. This is how we do things here at RMXP Unlimited.

 

Double-posting is a rule generally accepted amongst most forums, and therefore it is unwritten. Think of the rules as a system of law. There are laws written in statutes and then there is the common law, the ancient unwritten law.

 

I would like to note though that Kiriashi's extreme contribution to this forum should not factor in this discussion. The rules are the rules, and everyone must abide by them. Not that the original complaint of this topic was the wrong.

 

As for public warnings after the original post is deleted, I am for them. I don't see why it is a problem apart from the confusion of other members. I think it's appropriate and widely accepted on other forums.

 

 

Perhaps we should add the double-posting rule to the written set of rules. Oh, and it should be said we adopted the rules of creationasylum.net. Before this there were no set of written rules. This empathizes the point that there are rules that common amoung every forum that apply here.

[Knuckles 1]

No, actually knuckles you're wrong. Just because it is not written doesn't mean it's not against the rules. This is how we do things here at RMXP Unlimited.

and

 

Double-posting is a rule generally accepted amongst most forums, and therefore it is unwritten. Think of the rules as a system of law. There are laws written in statutes and then there is the common law, the ancient unwritten law.

By that same logic porn, flaming, and spamming are common rules, yet it's written on the board rules of every forum that prohibits against such content. Again there are a multitude of forums that allow multi-posting though you may not be aware of them. Then we have the common forum that abolishes profanity, however this forum isn't one of them.

[Kiriashi 117]

Considering the confusion that was caused by this, I agree that it should be added to the rules.

 

Hopefully this as enlightened you as to how RMXP Unlimited works, Knuckles? I apologize for starting this. >,<

 

EDIT:

 

By that same logic porn, flaming, and spamming are common rules, yet it's written on the board rules of every forum that prohibits against such content. Again there are a multitude of forums that allow multi-posting though you may not be aware of them. Then we have the common forum that abolishes profanity, however this forum isn't one of them.

 

..Wait what? I think you're confused.

 

It's not logic, its the way this site works, and its been set in stone. It's true that we have other rules that are common and yet they are listed and Double Posting is not, but Double Posting is one of the more obvious rules. It has its own memefor Pete's sake.

[Knuckles 1]

Considering the confusion that was caused by this, I agree that it should be added to the rules.

 

Hopefully this as enlightened you as to how RMXP Unlimited works, Knuckles? I apologize for starting this. >,<

Then more power to you. I posted my feedback about it in the feedback forum. You have every right to not agree with it or to adapt it, though it doesn't change the fact I can post my opinion about it.

[Kiriashi 117]

Then more power to you. I posted my feedback about it in the feedback forum. You have every right to not agree with it or to adapt it, though it doesn't change the fact I can post my opinion about it.

 

 

Not at all. It's more or less a good thing you brought this up. It's something we might end up acting on when it comes to the rules.

[Marked 197]

Everything else I have to say is debatable. I'll draft rules relating to double-posting and edit the rules so this is clear.

[Knuckles 1]

..Wait what? I think you're confused.

Not confused at all.

 

Not at all. It's more or less a good thing you brought this up. It's something we might end up acting on when it comes to the rules.

We're on the same page with something here.

 

This topic pretty much served its purpose. Lock it, delete it, leave it open, do whatever you wish with it. No hard feelings toward you.

[FranklinX 37]

I think this would have looked better if you just asked for it to be added to the rules in the first post.

[Knuckles 1]

I think this would have looked better if you just asked for it to be added to the rules in the first post.

Probably. Given I am a brutally honest individual I like to express my verdict honestly, rather than posting some sunshine and daisies thread about it. Constructive criticism can look very ugly. By that same coin my posts were made in an effort to refrain from triggering a personal attack (flaming). No personal hard feelings for Kiriashi in this entire debate.

[Noob Saibot 38]

My thoughts on this are as follows:

 

 

 

 

I would like to present my feedback on how some of this board's moderators take action on disputes. In My forum, RMXP For You: Post #58, the OP supposedly double-posted, however the moderator both deleted the post in question AND publically exposed the issue which should have been done privately via PM. Why? It would trigger confusion among the general public, as evident in here. My point is if you delete a post, then deal with the member in private instead of littering a topic about it. It is pretty damn simple.

 

I can agree and disagree with your statment. In basis of the actions taken and seeing what took place I would disagree that it should have been delt via PM. My conclusion to this is quite simple because some situations require a public warning, well other can go with a more private PM approche.

 

I must agree that deleting the post was pointless and a bad part on the Moderator (this is what the MERGE POSTS function is for). But at the same time you need to understand that this place runs its community as THEY SEE FIT and not by any law or configuration of another. Just because everyone does it doesn't make it not right or wrong and in this situation it is neither right or wrong as ALL STAFF of any forum do things as they see fit.

 

 

But Knuckles, isn't your point here that things like this should be dealt with privately? Then why are you not PMing Marked and I or just contacting me and telling me. You posted this in public.

 

This has nothing to do with privacy so your assumtion that this topic should be private is sadly mistaken. I also must say it is a poor example to try and use against the memeber to attemtp to prove you are right in any way. This is a feddback forum and thus the member used it as such.

 

How is it not clear what I did and why? I told him that he shouldn't double post unnecessarily.

 

And just because something is mentioned in the rules doesn't mean its accepted. Do you think it would be okay to make everything that's not in the rules allowed?

 

Instead of rules lets use common sense here people. If it is not LABLED SOMEWHERE the rule there for doesn't exsit, simple as that. And please don't try and use common sense to lay claim that it should be known it is not allowed because other forums don't allow it. That is a poor excuse and example as some forums do allow it.

 

So what if it doesn't exist? If we went by your thinking of how our rules work, then don't you think that maybe there would be a lot of crap in the forums?

 

"And why play this game...it was not long ago that the MODS themselves did much spamming."

 

You see my example of trying to justify something (above it "")? No one likes a smart ass or the lack of simple knowledge. He simply stated a FACT:

 

1) The rule did not exsisit on the forum, thus meaning your punishment was nul-and-void.

 

You can't punish if you have nothing in BLACK & WHITE to lay claim to the right that you do.

 

I have no right? I give so much of my time to help make this site a good one, flourishing with content pleasing all members. I volunteer myself to clean up the trash, and you say I have no right to tell members how to be better members? That's my whole damn job. Why do you insist on preventing me from doing my job here?

 

All I want to do is help. That's all I have done here, and I think other members would agree. Knuckles, you are obviously a very smart person; your posts are very intelligent and you backup all of your opinions. I envy that. It's something I wish all the members here could have a bit more. Why then do you use this talent of yours to put me down?

 

This isn't even that big of a deal. I've seen other moderators on this site in the past warn members in the public of the forums, and in one instance in particular I remember Marked himself telling a member not to double post unnecessarily. There are many, many cases in which double posting is okay. But not like he did it. Whose to say, as a part of the staff, I shouldn't ask another member not to do something. How I see it, the moderators are supposed to do what the rules don't.

 

 

What you have done for this community is irrelavant to the discussion at hand. One does not care about what you have done, simply what you have not done. You can't lay claim that you are in the right simply because of some minor things you have done in the past...or should we also lable the bad ones as well? It is a game better not played Kirashi.

 

Telling someone to stop is TELLING EVERYONE to also not do that action.

 

This is correct!

 

No, actually knuckles you're wrong. Just because it is not written doesn't mean it's not against the rules. This is how we do things here at RMXP Unlimited.

 

Double-posting is a rule generally accepted amongst most forums, and therefore it is unwritten. Think of the rules as a system of law. There are laws written in statutes and then there is the common law, the ancient unwritten law.

 

I would like to note though that Kiriashi's extreme contribution to this forum should not factor in this discussion. The rules are the rules, and everyone must abide by them. Not that the original complaint of this topic was the wrong.

 

As for public warnings after the original post is deleted, I am for them. I don't see why it is a problem apart from the confusion of other members. I think it's appropriate and widely accepted on other forums.

 

 

Perhaps we should add the double-posting rule to the written set of rules. Oh, and it should be said we adopted the rules of creationasylum.net. Before this there were no set of written rules. This empathizes the point that there are rules that common amoung every forum that apply here.

 

 

It doesn't matter if it is a general rule or a well known rule. A lack of it by sense tells people that YOU say it is okay to do, plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Allen Hunter]

I can't believe what you just said, Marked. Remember when I sent you a PM over Kiriashi editing my post (changing the word "shit" to "crap") and then him telling me not to swear (even though nowhere did it say on the forum rules that you aren't allowed to cuss)? The post that got edited is here: http://www.rmxpunlimited.net/forums/topic/5397-whats-your-gangsta-name/page__view__findpost__p__46057

A few members were confused when Kiriashi told me not to cuss, and those few members thought that using the word "crap" was a swear word, according to him. That's total rubbish. Knuckles made an intelligent post, criticizing a staff member for enforcing invisible rules. Moreover, a member was unexpectedly warned for double posting. On the other hand, I don't see any of that being mentioned anywhere in the rules. Therefore, why was he warned?

 

This is really confusing. I'm ashamed to see that one of the admins of this forum is siding with Kiriashi, and defending his right to warn people for double posting, even THOUGH it doesn't mention any of that in the rules.

Here's my PM I sent to Marked, regarding the "shit" word:

Hi Marked.

 

I posted on RKO's "What's your Gangsta Name" thread and said this: "But I thought you hated ghetto shit, RKO?"

http://www.rmxpunlim...dpost__p__46057

 

However, Kiriashi edited my post and replaced "shit" with "crap", and told me not to swear. But, I checked the rules, and it doesn't say anything about cussing? So, why did he edit my post for? I wasn't flaming anyone. Please resolve this. Thanks.

 

And here's Marked's response:

Hi Allen Hunter,

 

Yes you are correct. It is not against the rules technically, and there are situations where swearing is not unnecessary.

 

I will contact Kiriashi about this now.

 

First of all, Marked and Kiriashi, be more clear with people, and update your rules, for Christ's sakes. Members are told to read the rules when they join forums, so I'm quite positively sure the member who was warned for double posting DID read them from A to Z. Therefore, why warn him then, when the rules don't even say anything about double posting?