Feedback on moderation

[Blackbound 4]

Rules come in two sets:

 

Written rules and Forum rules you already should be aware of.

 

When posting, you should post with the sense to understand both of these rule sets.

 

One of these rules is "Refrain from double posting unless you have a reason to"

 

This forum does not have anything that would hinder a child viewing this site. I would say we should keep it that way. Swearing makes things worse for the site and should be kept down to a PG rating.

[Guest Allen Hunter]

Yet, every forum is different; many allow members to double post, the rest don't. What would be the point of having a rules page for members to click on and read if the rules page is incomplete?

 

Swearing makes things worse for the site and should be kept down to a PG rating.

Dude. Did you even read the PM that I sent to Marked?

[Kiriashi 117]

I can agree and disagree with your statment. In basis of the actions taken and seeing what took place I would disagree that it should have been delt via PM. My conclusion to this is quite simple because some situations require a public warning, well other can go with a more private PM approche.

 

I must agree that deleting the post was pointless and a bad part on the Moderator (this is what the MERGE POSTS function is for). But at the same time you need to understand that this place runs its community as THEY SEE FIT and not by any law or configuration of another. Just because everyone does it doesn't make it not right or wrong and in this situation it is neither right or wrong as ALL STAFF of any forum do things as they see fit.

 

Whoa whoa whoa, Kage. Hold up. I didn't delete the post, I merged it. Why do you think I would delete it? Eco posted three times. One of them was a duplicate of the second due to pressing the post button twice. THAT's what I deleted. The second one and first were merged.

 

This has nothing to do with privacy so your assumtion that this topic should be private is sadly mistaken. I also must say it is a poor example to try and use against the memeber to attemtp to prove you are right in any way. This is a feddback forum and thus the member used it as such.

 

Kage, I was assuming that he was talking directly to me. In that case, he should have PMed me. I later found out otherwise. I most certainly was not using that "against him to prove that I was right in any way." I am quite offended that you would say such a thing.

 

 

Instead of rules lets use common sense here people. If it is not LABLED SOMEWHERE the rule there for doesn't exsit, simple as that. And please don't try and use common sense to lay claim that it should be known it is not allowed because other forums don't allow it. That is a poor excuse and example as some forums do allow it

 

A poor excuse? It isn't an excuse, its a fact. We aren't other forums, we are this forum. If something is done that the staff finds wrong, they act upon it. It's common sense. And yes, It should be known. Not just other forums, but almost ALL forums do not allow it.

 

I'm not going to even comment on the rest of your comments as you are going off topic, belittling me as a member of the forums. It's not about me, it's about Double Posting. It seems like you're trying to get revenge because of a recent PM I sent you.

 

 

EDIT: I read your (Anthony) post, but I don't even know if I should bother demystifying the situation for you or just leaving. Apparently this place would be better off without me.

[isaacsol 10]

I think this has gone far enough. I will not have my staff berated, because of confusion of the rules. To avoid any other confusion in future, the rules will be rewritten. I will start work immediately on this. For future reference, if you have any problems with the forum rules, or are unsure about them please contact myself or a staff member.

 

When the new rules are updated, they will go into effect immediately, along with an announcement of the rules being updated. Any member who breaks the rules after the new ones have been announced will not being able to use ignorance of the changes or ignorance of the rules themselves.

 

I will make sure that the rules will be as foolproof as they can, and as clear as they can so no one can dispute them. Would all staff members who wish to consult me on the rules please send me a PM a.s.a.p. including Mark.

[Marked 197]

Good idea isaascol, it will stop a few members complaining, although we haven't had them before.

 

Allen hunter, it's really inappropriate to post personal messages I sent you. And I have always acted from the beginning with the best intentions and fairness on the forum. I will always stand by the fact that not every single little rule can be written down, and common sense applies. Other forums may allow it, but I think they are not in the majority.

 

Not that I should tell you, Kiriashi and I had a long conversation about swearing in posts.

[FranklinX 37]

Thank you for rewriting the rules. Things should be more clear and this problem will be avoided in the future.

[Noob Saibot 38]

Whoa whoa whoa, Kage. Hold up. I didn't delete the post, I merged it. Why do you think I would delete it? Eco posted three times. One of them was a duplicate of the second due to pressing the post button twice. THAT's what I deleted. The second one and first were merged.

 

My apologies, that's how it was worded in posts I read. That you simply deleted it.

 

Kage, I was assuming that he was talking directly to me. In that case, he should have PMed me. I later found out otherwise. I most certainly was not using that "against him to prove that I was right in any way." I am quite offended that you would say such a thing.

 

But even I could tell by reading he was talking to the STAFF as a whole. He may have pointed you out or used you as an example, but he was speaking to all STAFF.

 

A poor excuse? It isn't an excuse, its a fact. We aren't other forums, we are this forum. If something is done that the staff finds wrong, they act upon it. It's common sense. And yes, It should be known. Not just other forums, but almost ALL forums do not allow it.

 

It is a excuse. You can't justify people knowing something as a general fact or law by WHAT YOU DEEM AS A GENERAL RULE. You are deeming it, thus it is your opinion and has no weight to be used as a fact. I have never seen a forum who did not CLEARLY POST A RULE, but would have a punishment due to the fact that the THE PERSON thought it was general knowledge accross all forums. Because if this was my first time on a forum your so called claim of it being known is false. The FACT is if it is not in BLACK AND WHITE it is not breaking any rules!!!

 

I'm not going to even comment on the rest of your comments as you are going off topic, belittling me as a member of the forums. It's not about me, it's about Double Posting. It seems like you're trying to get revenge because of a recent PM I sent you.

 

You must be refering to this:

 

 

 

"And why play this game...it was not long ago that the MODS themselves did much spamming."

 

 

 

First off it was used as an example, not stating anything that you have or have not done. I posted it to show that one can not proove a point by stating something negative or positaive about themselves or others when trying to prove a point. I appoligize if you took it as an attack or insult as it was not my intention. Next time when using an example I will be more clear on what I am trying to point out.

 

EDIT: I read your (Anthony) post, but I don't even know if I should bother demystifying the situation for you or just leaving. Apparently this place would be better off without me

 

Your right it would and here is why:

 

 

 

1) You are the most active member.

2) You are a staff member

3) Marked has trudted you to do what you feel is right as a MOD.

4) You are more mature then most I have seen on this community.

 

 

 

So what you can do is:

 

 

 

You are a valued member and MOD Kirashi and none of this negative talk about how you think you might not be needed or wanted. It matters not what members think (like you or dislike you). Marked trusts you to be a MOD and that's all you need to know. And I am sure many members will agree with me on this. So stop beating yourself up over one topic (or many) because other people have an opinion about how you do things. It's what makes you Kirashi. And yes I pointed out negative stuff, but hey I'm no peach myself you know; I too have a rap sheet on this community, but at the end of the day it is just peoples opinion. So as a RETIRED ADMIN I...

 

 

 

ORDER YOU NOT TO LEAVE!!

 

 

 

 

[Kiriashi 117]

Bold = Me

 

My apologies, that's how it was worded in posts I read. That you simply deleted it.

 

No problem, just a bit of confusion. I didn't know that was assumed by you guys. >.< That clears up a lot.

 

 

 

But even I could tell by reading he was talking to the STAFF as a whole. He may have pointed you out or used you as an example, but he was speaking to all STAFF.

 

Even you? What is that supposed to mean :blink: . I didn't know. And others that the same as well, so I'm not a moron for thinking that at first.

 

It is a excuse. You can't justify people knowing something as a general fact or law by WHAT YOU DEEM AS A GENERAL RULE. You are deeming it, thus it is your opinion and has no weight to be used as a fact. I have never seen a forum who did not CLEARLY POST A RULE, but would have a punishment due to the fact that the THE PERSON thought it was general knowledge accross all forums. Because if this was my first time on a forum your so called claim of it being known is false. The FACT is if it is not in BLACK AND WHITE it is not breaking any rules!!!

 

You make a very good point, I admit that. It makes sense; what you you said. But Kage, that is how this site operates. In my opinion, it's a good way to operate. That's how we've been doing it, and according to Marked that's how we will do it. My opinion will stand. Remember I recognize where you are coming from.

 

You must be refering to this:

 

 

 

"And why play this game...it was not long ago that the MODS themselves did much spamming."

 

 

 

First off it was used as an example, not stating anything that you have or have not done. I posted it to show that one can not proove a point by stating something negative or positaive about themselves or others when trying to prove a point. I appoligize if you took it as an attack or insult as it was not my intention. Next time when using an example I will be more clear on what I am trying to point out.

 

This time I assumed wrong. >.< We really need to be more clear.

 

Your right it would and here is why:

 

 

 

1) You are the most active member.

2) You are a staff member

3) Marked has trudted you to do what you feel is right as a MOD.

4) You are more mature then most I have seen on this community.

 

 

 

So what you can do is:

 

 

 

You are a valued member and MOD Kirashi and none of this negative talk about how you think you might not be needed or wanted. It matters not what members think (like you or dislike you). Marked trusts you to be a MOD and that's all you need to know. And I am sure many members will agree with me on this. So stop beating yourself up over one topic (or many) because other people have an opinion about how you do things. It's what makes you Kirashi. And yes I pointed out negative stuff, but hey I'm no peach myself you know; I too have a rap sheet on this community, but at the end of the day it is just peoples opinion. So as a RETIRED ADMIN I...

 

 

 

ORDER YOU NOT TO LEAVE!!

 

 

 

 

 

Well I'm not sure if that was a load of sarcasm or what seeing as you said I was right, directly after I said the forums would be better off without me... But I am contemplating that.

[Tomo2000 60]

Well, here are my thoughts:

 

This topic is starting to piss me off. I agree with Isaac, this has gone far enough. I hardly see how this began in the first place. So why cant we just burry the hatchet and shut this topic down? I don't see its point except for hurting members of the forum. And I believe that is against the rules, is it not; Flaming.

 

Flaming is when you trash another member; it’s when you insult another member or another member’s work without positive criticism.

 

I've seen no positive criticism, only flaming. Oh, and look at this:

 

Trolling is the action of posting material on the forum with the sole purpose of creating chaos, starting flame wars or any other negative event.

 

So, isnt the whole point of this topic against the rules? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope this matter ends reletively fast or we'll see first hand the consequences of our actions (I'm beginning to see them already, their not good :( )

[Marked 197]

Yeah Tomo you're right, though there may yet be a positive outcome.

 

The rules have been edited over the past few days and we plan to edit them a lot further. They'll also be added to the Terms of Service page upon registration so all members would have declared they agree to them.

 

I should have made it clear by now about the rules on double-posting and rules not expressly written. This is by no means unreasonable and in fact is similar to the laws by which most of us live our lives.

 

I think this topic should be left open (as long as it stays civil) so no member feels like we are unjust or corrupt.

[Noob Saibot 38]

Bold = Me

 

No problem, just a bit of confusion. I didn't know that was assumed by you guys. >.< That clears up a lot.

 

I beleave this discussion about how people read words was discussed in the Spam topic. Goes to show that we need to STOP and READ....and clearify.

 

 

Bold = Me

Even you? What is that supposed to mean :blink: . I didn't know. And others that the same as well, so I'm not a moron for thinking that at first.

 

Perhspas it's just my years of learning to truly read what people are saying rather then think of what I think they ment!

 

Bold = Me

 

You make a very good point, I admit that. It makes sense; what you you said. But Kage, that is how this site operates. In my opinion, it's a good way to operate. That's how we've been doing it, and according to Marked that's how we will do it. My opinion will stand. Remember I recognize where you are coming from.

 

It's not good..it's a simple fact. I don't care how you or Marked suger coat your reasons. If it's not in BLACK AND WHITE it is not a rule to follow on this COMMUNITY.

 

Well I'm not sure if that was a load of sarcasm or what seeing as you said I was right, directly after I said the forums would be better off without me... But I am contemplating that.

 

You see you are reading what you THINK you know by trying to analize the meaning of my intentions on what I wrote. You failed to see the positive meaning behind it, thus you are conteplating it. If you take it as sarcasm then perhaps you should just read the last paragraph only.

<_<

 

Well, here are my thoughts:

 

This topic is starting to piss me off. I agree with Isaac, this has gone far enough. I hardly see how this began in the first place. So why cant we just burry the hatchet and shut this topic down? I don't see its point except for hurting members of the forum. And I believe that is against the rules, is it not; Flaming.

 

 

 

I've seen no positive criticism, only flaming. Oh, and look at this:

 

 

 

So, isnt the whole point of this topic against the rules? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope this matter ends reletively fast or we'll see first hand the consequences of our actions (I'm beginning to see them already, their not good :( )

 

Your definition is vage at best:

 

 

 

Flaming (also known as bashing) is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), Usenet, by e-mail, game servers such as Xbox Live or Playstation Network, and on Video-sharing websites. It is usually the result of the discussion of heated real-world issues like politics, sports, religion, and philosophy, or of issues that polarise subpopulations. Internet trolls frequently set out to incite flame wars for the sole purpose of offending or irritating other posters.

 

Flaming is usually carried out by individuals known as flamers, who are specifically motivated to incite flaming. These users specialize in flaming and target specific aspects of a controversial conversation, and are usually less subtle than their counterparts. Known as trolls, these users are less professional and speak obvious and blunt remarks to incite a flame war, as opposed to the more subtle, yet precise flamers.

 

While flaming refers exclusively to insulting online discussions, debates resulting in back-and-forth personal insults have been common to society for ages. Arguments over the ratification of the United States Constitution were often personally heated, with many striking at one another through local newspapers. Also, such interactions have always been part of literary criticism. For example, Ralph Waldo Emersons contempt for Jane Austen's works often extended to the author herself, with Emerson describing her as without genius, wit, or knowledge of the world. In turn, Emerson himself was called a hoary-headed toothless baboon by Thomas Carlyle.

 

In the modern era, flaming originated in the some of the earliest Internet chat rooms and message boards. Generally, Internet flaming was first observed in the Usenet hierarchies (although it was known to occur in the WWIVnet and FidoNet computer networks as well).

 

 

Flamebait

 

Flamebait is a message posted to a public Internet discussion group, such as a forum, newsgroup or mailing list, with the intent of provoking an angry response (a "flame") or argument over a topic the poster often has no real interest in. While flaming can occur as a result of legitimate debates or grievances, flamebait implies the intentional posting of inflammatory rhetoric or images.

 

As stated, flaming can stem from a variety of issues, including misunderstandings, frustration, and perceptions of unfairness. Of course, one of the most popular motives (from trolls especially) is the desire for attention and for entertainment derived at the expense of others. Posted flamebait can provide the poster with a controlled trigger-and-response setting in which to anonymously engage in conflicts and indulge in aggressive behavior without facing the consequences that such behavior might bring in a face-to-face encounter. In other instances, flamebait may be used to reduce a forum's use by angering the forum users.

 

Flame wars

 

A flame war results when one or more users engages in provocative responses to the originally posted flamebait. Flame wars often draw in many users (including those trying to diffuse the flame war) and can overshadow regular forum discussion if left unchecked.

 

Resolving a flame war can be difficult, as it is often hard to determine who is really responsible for the degradation of a reasonable discussion into flame war. Someone who posts a contrary opinion in a strongly focused discussion forum may be easily labeled a "baiter," "flamer," or "troll." Therefore, it seems important to make the rules and focus of a discussion forum public to avoid misconceptions about its accepted use.

 

An approach to resolving a flame war or responding to flaming is to communicate openly with the offending users. Acknowledging mistakes, offering to help resolve the disagreement, making clear, reasoned arguments, and even self-deprecation have all been noted as worthwhile strategies to end such disputes. However, others prefer to simply ignore flaming, noting that, in many cases, if the flamebait receives no attention, it will quickly be forgotten as forum discussions carry on. Unfortunately, this can motivate trolls to intensify their activities, creating additional distractions.

 

Taking the bait or feeding the troll refers to someone who responds to the original message regardless of whether they are aware the original message was intended to provoke a response. Often when someone takes the bait, others will point out to them YHBT for "You have been trolled," or reply with "don't feed the trolls." Forum users will also frequently "rate" the troll as means of acknowledgment, with statements such as "0/10, obvious troll is obvious", or "10/10, I raged."

 

Examples of flaming

 

The perennial debates between users of Windows and competing operating systems such as Mac OS, or the Linux operating system, users of Intel and AMD processors, and users of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 video game systems, often escalate into seemingly unending "flamewars".

 

Popular culture continues to generate large amounts of flaming and countless flamewars across the Internet, such as the constant debates between fans of Star Trek and Star Wars.

 

In 2005, author Anne Rice became involved in a flamewar of sorts on the review boards of online retailer Amazon.com after several reviewers posted scathing comments about her latest novel. Rice responded to the comments with her own lengthy response, which was quickly met with more feedback from users.

 

 

[Kiriashi 117]

I take my leave from this as I see no positive development from further establishing my opinion in this discussion.

[Noob Saibot 38]

I take my leave from this as I see no positive development from further establishing my opinion in this discussion.

 

Well I was going in a positive direction, but you seemed to have taken it negative and so that is your problem and issue. I take my leave from this topic.

 

<_<