FranklinX 37 Report post Posted February 17, 2011 RKO, True as that may be, and do agree, most people stay with the RTP, and I won't play a game with the VX RTP. VX's RTP is the old school look. I think it looks good. However, I think XP's RTP looks better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 Graphics are not debatable for either side. Anyone can convert graphics from one system to another. There is nothing about either systems that restricts the graphics. It's an invalid argument. *inserts demotivational poster* Which graphics are better, even if you couldnt change them, still isnt what the topic was supposed to be out. Its more about you can use them. You can get RMXP's tilesets in RMVX (if that's what you're into) but couldn't still make the same maps because the layer system is downgraded(i think? I havent opened VX is a very long time and dont have it on this computer). So perhaps you could replicate RPG Maker VX's maps in RMXP but you could not in replicate RPG Maker XP's graphics in RMVX. Because you in RMXP you can place any tile on any layer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knuckles 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) The layering system is similar to RM2K/3. You have only two layers to work with as opposed to RMXP's three layer mapping system. If memory serves me right tileset A is dedicated to layer one and B through E work on layer two. With 2K/3 both layers have their own tiles. Edited February 18, 2011 by Knuckles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 And also you don't chose your layers do you? The just go on top of each depending on which set they're in. Was the simplification necessary ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken Messiah 20 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 True but, there is a limit to how much tilesets you can have which limit diversity of maps. Of course there swapxt now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrimsonInferno 35 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 There's even a script that allows you to build a map in a graphics program and then just import the image. :P I think they all have their ups and downs. VX is really fun to use and I would make a cute little story out of it, but I always feel like XP can handle more of an important, mature story line. :biggrin_002: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joman195 9 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 Side comment: One thing I like about VX are the vehicles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EmilyAnnCoons 7 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 I have worked with VX a little bit. First of all, I didn't know VX had a side view battle system. The default battle system in the version of VX I have is a system where all you see is the enemy, nothing more. Your characters don't have battle graphics or anything. However, on that note, if VX does have a side view battle system, my guess would be that it is a system designed by someone else. In that case, RMXP has it as well (Minkoff's Animated Side View Battle System). So, honestly? Just because it has a side view battle system isn't a reasonable excuse, cause RMXP does too (and it has a tactical battle system and 4 ABS systems AND an RTAB system). The tilesets in RMXP are extremely limiting. I've worked with RMVX and RM2k3 before...I moved to RMXP because RM2k3 sucked. When I moved to VX, all I saw was a downgrade. They switched back to the RM2k3 style of character graphics, they had gone back to the two layer system, and worst of all, they had downgraded the tilesets all the way back to RM95 (the whole 5 tilesets thing). It was so bad that I didn't care about how amazing the scripting was, the graphics were simply that terrible. I can't play RMVX games because the graphics to it are just that bad. On the other hand, even a bad map in RMXP can look good. No amount of work on RMVX can make a good map...sorry... The vehicles are unnecessary for any game, and even if they were necessary, RMXP has a vehicle script. So really, that's not even worth making a big point of. The point and click is nice...but you know...I use 3 different styles of doors in my current RMXP project...Why do I do that? Because doors operate differently between worlds. I can't create that in RMVX. Also, how hard is it to make one event then Copy+Paste it for every door? That's all I do. I also do that for the Healing Stones, monsters, and many others events that fill the world (especially treasure chests). So really you're saying VX can point and click and create, but how are you creative? How can you make your own style of anything if you just click and it's done? "A delayed game is good eventually, but a bad game is bad forever." If you can make a game in a month on VX, it will be bad. A good game takes time and effort. RMXP requires that time and effort. I've been working on Worlds Collide now for a month. Is it anywhere close to done? Nope, but it's better then anything I've seen produced in a month. Crystals of Chaos has taken 5 years and it still isn't done (I've also quit working on it for now). It's still better then almost any other RMXP game I've seen. Not to brag...but I make good games because I put the time and effort into it. If I can't do it myself, I'll ask around, but for the most part, 90% of it is done by me, by hand, spending hours coding one thing. Why? Because it makes it good. (Also, Adventure Game Studio is awesome and can produce games better then RMXP can but also requires you to code 100% of it yourself XD) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken Messiah 20 Report post Posted February 18, 2011 From a newbish scripters point of view, RMVX has comment boxes that made making item and equipment scripts very easy to config. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiriashi 117 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 This is what I think about the graphical differences. :) RMXP is more "cartoony" in a sense, while VX takes on more of an anime feel. XP is cartoony because its resources are tall, wide, more detailed. VX is anime like because its small, short, brighter and less detailed. Anime is mostly chibi'd anyways, as opposed to cartoony look of let's say, American cartoons. If that makes sense...Cartoony isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially in the case of XP :P Or at least that's how I see it. xD Okay seriously WHERE are you guys getting this? How is anime style like VX at all? And cartoony like RMXP? Or vice versa? I'm not saying one or the other is bad or even different things. How do you come to that conclusion? I think they mean anime as a style. In the context of charactersets I can distinguish between something that looks cartoony and something that looks anime styled. So I don't think that should be interpreted so strictly... or the OP can clarify/ Same thing. Please explain to me where you get this understanding of the differentiation of the two styles. It makes no sense. VX characters are dwarfed, RMXP characters are not. I mean that rmxp battlers look like a 5 yr old drew them while vx battlers look very detailed and hd Hmm i wasn't thinking about that. You;re right no that one. RMXP battlers kinda suck... Though the VX ones aren't really High Definition. If you made that SDK, I'd follow you ~forever~ *w* (...Forever~) But in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind having a little easier/quicker time with RMXP. I think I got over most of the learning curve except mapping, and even now, with someone with as busy of a schedule as me, I'd love to be able to have easier eventing/mapping without it restricting you like in VX. They do that sometime and I'd buy it right away. 8D Haha, I remember when he was talking about that. You know there is a remade RMXP SDK already. And you sure do like the strike-through BBC. It should be named after you. The layering system is similar to RM2K/3. You have only two layers to work with as opposed to RMXP's three layer mapping system. If memory serves me right tileset A is dedicated to layer one and B through E work on layer two. With 2K/3 both layers have their own tiles. Yup, thats exactly it. Though I think RM3K was pretty decent. And also you don't chose your layers do you? The just go on top of each depending on which set they're in. Was the simplification necessary ? With 2000 and 2003 there was layers. With VX, the tilesets have defined layers, so no. You don't specify My replies are in bold. I have worked with VX a little bit. First of all, I didn't know VX had a side view battle system. The default battle system in the version of VX I have is a system where all you see is the enemy, nothing more. Your characters don't have battle graphics or anything. However, on that note, if VX does have a side view battle system, my guess would be that it is a system designed by someone else. In that case, RMXP has it as well (Minkoff's Animated Side View Battle System). So, honestly? Just because it has a side view battle system isn't a reasonable excuse, cause RMXP does too (and it has a tactical battle system and 4 ABS systems AND an RTAB system). What scripts are available with the platform definitely don't define which one is better, thats for sure. If you want an added feature, script it yourself (I'm not directing this at you Emmy, I hope thats clear. xD). Its not enterbrain's fault that they didn't make the engine around you. The tilesets in RMVX are extremely limiting. I've worked with RMVX and RM2k3 before...I moved to RMXP because RM2k3 sucked. When I moved to VX, all I saw was a downgrade. They switched back to the RM2k3 style of character graphics, they had gone back to the two layer system, and worst of all, they had downgraded the tilesets all the way back to RM95 (the whole 5 tilesets thing). It was so bad that I didn't care about how amazing the scripting was, the graphics were simply that terrible. I can't play RMVX games because the graphics to it are just that bad. On the other hand, even a bad map in RMXP can look good. No amount of work on RMVX can make a good map...sorry... While I disagree that there can't be good maps in RMVX, I sure do dislike the graphics. And I despise the mapping system. It was pure laziness on enterbrain's part. They didn't want to hire whatever his name is to sprite more tilesets. The mapping system is RMVX's greatest failure. The vehicles are unnecessary for any game, and even if they were necessary, RMXP has a vehicle script. So really, that's not even worth making a big point of. The point and click is nice...but you know...I use 3 different styles of doors in my current RMXP project...Why do I do that? Because doors operate differently between worlds. I can't create that in RMVX. Also, how hard is it to make one event then Copy+Paste it for every door? That's all I do. I also do that for the Healing Stones, monsters, and many others events that fill the world (especially treasure chests). So really you're saying VX can point and click and create, but how are you creative? How can you make your own style of anything if you just click and it's done? Yeah, those quick events really bothered me. It WOULD have been nice if you could assign your own premade events to the slots, but instead its RMVX spoonfeeding you. I rarely even use comment events in a sense that I'm copying an event like a chest or something. I just do it with the events again. Know why? ITS CALLED MAKING THE GAME! I feel accomplished by doing it all myself and by making everything in the game different. As for vehicles, I think they can be utilized in an RPG game if done well. But the fact that the system is already made for you is ridiculous. RMVX might as well come with a prewritten storyline. "A delayed game is good eventually, but a bad game is bad forever." If you can make a game in a month on VX, it will be bad. A good game takes time and effort. RMXP requires that time and effort. I've been working on Worlds Collide now for a month. Is it anywhere close to done? Nope, but it's better then anything I've seen produced in a month. Crystals of Chaos has taken 5 years and it still isn't done (I've also quit working on it for now). It's still better then almost any other RMXP game I've seen. Not to brag...but I make good games because I put the time and effort into it. If I can't do it myself, I'll ask around, but for the most part, 90% of it is done by me, by hand, spending hours coding one thing. Why? Because it makes it good. (Also, Adventure Game Studio is awesome and can produce games better then RMXP can but also requires you to code 100% of it yourself XD) (sorry to use stupid internet memes but...) This. Seriously. This. So what if it takes time to make the game? So what if you actually have to TRY in order to make the game worth someone's time. Thats the WHOLE POINT. The "RPG Maker" in RPG Maker XP and VX is not the program. Its you. You are the person who makes the game. :3 From a newbish scripters point of view, RMVX has comment boxes that made making item and equipment scripts very easy to config. Lol thats true. There's at least one improvement that RMVX made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 Same thing. Please explain to me where you get this understanding of the differentiation of the two styles. It makes no sense. VX characters are dwarfed, RMXP characters are not. They key is that its the same thing to you. Just don't worry about, the words mean different things to different people, its really not worth debating :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiriashi 117 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 No. One or the other being better is an opinion. RMVX looking bad or not is an opinion. Whether or not it looks like are certain style is factual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mako 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) No. One or the other being better is an opinion. RMVX looking bad or not is an opinion. Whether or not it looks like are certain style is factual. I disagree with this Kiriashi, VX has better frame rate and higher resolution. Though 10fps shouldn't make that much of a difference, it does. So far in my research I have come across one valid argument. But this was rectified shortly after. The argument is that the mapping system...well...in VX is terrible, they are right! but this is invalid, as there are many tile editors out there that support many many layers. Just simply export to a .png and add the clear walkable tiles, problem solved. Also I have been digging around to find out why exactly XP scripting is better? Continued off my topic found here. what is the reason specifically? I see everyone here prefers XP and over on another forum they prefer VX. I am just trying to get to the bottom of this before I make my purchase, not so much the loss of money as it would be the loss of time in picking the wrong version. Edited February 19, 2011 by Mako Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiriashi 117 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 Errmm.. disagreeing with me is fine, but I'm talking about something different entirely. I was discussing whether or not the RMVX tiles looks a certain way and the RMXP ones looked a certain way, and whether or not it made one or the other look better. You're just talking about RMVX and RMXP in general. lol But yeah, all your points are valid. Though the fact that you have to compromise VX to get a worthy mapping system does seem a little odd does it not? I mean, shouldn't Enterbrain have dealt with it properly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mako 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 Yes but this is a minor fix for this problem, as opposed to XP were it is not possible to fix. Enterbrain has been removing features since 2k3 and adding *SOME* features back. I'd imagine we are due for another till then VX will have to do. Unless someone can point out something I didn't find out already... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiriashi 117 Report post Posted February 19, 2011 I don't think RPG Maker is going to make a return soon , if ever at all. Perhaps an upgrade to AGM.. which I despise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaboth 6 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 so true, about vx being easier, but its more funner to use rpg maker xp than it is that, they might as well just made a scripting system for rpg maker 2003... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrimsonInferno 35 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 Okay seriously WHERE are you guys getting this? How is anime style like VX at all? And cartoony like RMXP? Or vice versa? I'm not saying one or the other is bad or even different things. How do you come to that conclusion? I don't know how to explain it. >.< I'll try though: when I said "cartoon" it really means more "mature looking". When I said "anime" I mean more "childish looking" (aka Chibi). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 I don't think RPG Maker is going to make a return soon , if ever at all. Perhaps an upgrade to AGM.. which I despise. I found this posted back in April. I won't link you to the site, I'll just quote the post: EB has updated their site with something other then RPG Maker DS related news, which is a first in months. https://www.enterbrain.co.jp/cgi-bin/tkool/...quete201004.cgi They've posted a new survey that ask certain questions about what RPG Maker fans would like to see in the next installment in the RPG Maker series for Windows. While we knew it was bound to happen sooner or later seeing how it is their most popular maker I'm surprised they didn't post this sooner. Questions 1-6 - Resource Related Questions 7 and 8 - Contest Related Question 9 - Asks what type of game you want to make with RPG Maker. Question 10 - Ask what features you would like to see in a future version of RPG Maker and ask for specifics. Now we wait for the official announcement of the next RPG Maker. I've been keeping an eye out for any news but nothing has come up yet. I think everyone expected one to come out with windows 7 as per the trend (XP then VX), but I guess they were busy with other things. I'm sure they'll want to bring something out to redeem themselves and make a maker that every one agrees is the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mako 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 I agree they, probably were working on RPG maker DS. As Enterbrain doesn't have a lot of money they probably focused on one or two tasks...I think if the DS version goes well they can renew investor interest. Even if they don't Enterbrain only has a few successful franchises, I think they will have little choice if they want to remain in business. That's my opinion anyway...but who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProjectTrinity 8 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 To make the very best RPG Maker that only nostalgia peeps would disagree with (and really, nostalgia-pumped fans should be ignored like a buried bug), would be to at least purposely allow 3D everything. ='3 With the difficulty curve no steeper than XP's. Is that possible? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mako 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 Yes, the game was made for PS2 called RPG maker 3... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProjectTrinity 8 Report post Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) ^ I wonder where all the great games from that product are~ Translation: Methinks I was referring the probability of them going 3D for Windows 7, with way more leg room and features than the PS2 version?... (Yes I do like the strikeout, Kiriashi! =p) Edited February 20, 2011 by ProjectTrinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mako 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2011 ^ I wonder where all the great games from that product are~ Translation: Methinks I was referring the probability of them going 3D for Windows 7, with way more leg room and features than the PS2 version?... (Yes I do like the strikeout, Kiriashi! =p) I was joking...I am renowned internet wide for my bad jokes :/. I just found out that even with using an external program to create the maps in VX then exporting it to a .png, it seems doing it this way would result in the player not being able to move behind the object! This is a huge draw back for me...I see that XP will probably be the one I choose. Unless I can find a work around for this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chief 30 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 I'm a little late in this, lol, but Mako, VX is actually a smaller resolution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrimsonInferno 35 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 VX can be played in full screen. Can't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigace360 38 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 VX can be played in full screen. Can't it? Yup, just click [Enter] + [Alt] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken Messiah 20 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 There is also rpgmaker for gba lol I would like to see a tacrical rpg maker I know one exists but it doesnt work on 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiriashi 117 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 I don't know how to explain it. >.< I'll try though: when I said "cartoon" it really means more "mature looking". When I said "anime" I mean more "childish looking" (aka Chibi). Anime styles ≠ chibi. The majority of anime are "realistic" looking. I found this posted back in April. I won't link you to the site, I'll just quote the post: I've been keeping an eye out for any news but nothing has come up yet. I think everyone expected one to come out with windows 7 as per the trend (XP then VX), but I guess they were busy with other things. I'm sure they'll want to bring something out to redeem themselves and make a maker that every one agrees is the best. Hot damn. I stand corrected. And happily; I'd loved to see a new maker... just a cheaper and better one. To make the very best RPG Maker that only nostalgia peeps would disagree with (and really, nostalgia-pumped fans should be ignored like a buried bug), would be to at least purposely allow 3D everything. ='3 With the difficulty curve no steeper than XP's. Is that possible? Yes, the game was made for PS2 called RPG maker 3... RPG Maker 3 is like... ET on the Atari ^ I wonder where all the great games from that product are~ Translation: Methinks I was referring the probability of them going 3D for Windows 7, with way more leg room and features than the PS2 version?... (Yes I do like the strikeout, Kiriashi! =p) Heh heh.. :3 And I don't think Enterbrain should mess with 3D ever again. VX can be played in full screen. Can't it? Yup, just click [Enter] + [Alt] The same can be said for RMXP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chief 30 Report post Posted February 22, 2011 making it fullscreen doesn't determine the resolution. XP's Resolution is: 640x480 VX's, although I dont remember the numbers, is smaller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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