Disrespectful or not?

[Marked 197]

Hi all,

 

Today, I attended a memorial service for the one year anniversary of an earthquake that claimed 185 lives in the city.

 

Here's the run down of the nationalities of the dead New Zealand

– Christchurch

– Waimakariri & Selwyn

– Lyttelton

– Wellington

– Other/Unknown 97^[113]

86

8

1

1

1 Japan 28^[113] China 23 Philippines 9 Thailand 6 Israel 3 South Korea 2

Canada

Ireland

Malaysia

Republic of China (Taiwan)

Romania^[114]

Serbia

Turkey

United States

 

As you can well see, a huge number are from various counties, mostly asia (and thats because one of the buildings that collapsed was a language school).

 

 

So I want to know your opinion on whether you think this is disrepsectful. The crowd attending where invited to say a prayer, passages were read from the bible, and generally a big ironic thank you to God for our recovery efforts. So basically, the service to honor our dead involved a great deal of Christian elements.

 

Do you think this is disrepectful to those who died? No other faiths/religions were involved whatsoever and there are vitctims from Japan, Malaysia, China, etc. It doesn't need to be said that not everyone follows the Christian faith. It doesn't matter what religion they were, it matters that Christianity was included and all others excluded, and that we should all pray like we have faith in the one god.

 

I felt insulted as this was disrespecting the dead, and after my 2minutes of silence, I left the service, rather worked up at this disrepsect, and thoroughly disappointed in my university.

 

So, what do all you guys think about this? I would really like more opinions on it.

[Jon Bon 43]

Well, the color of your skin and your geographical birth location or current inhabited location do not automatically dictate which religion or beliefs you follow. 3 from Israel, can we even be certain what religion these people followed? We can't simply assume they all had the same beliefs. If we automatically include their country of origins most popular/common religion as their religious beliefs in a ceremony to honor the memory of their life, wouldn't that be disrespectful?

 

Without more information regarding the event you attended its tough to say. But I would have to assume the event was held by Christian followers and maybe even organized or funded by the Christ Church, which would make sense why it was Christian themed.

In any event, this was most likely not an event to worship jesus christ or god as christians see him/her/it but merely a show of support to honor the dead by christian followers.

 

You really need to be careful when being involved in any event such as these, many of them are religious in background and often times creature 'dummy corporations/groups' with non religious names who sponsor or organize the event so people do not catch on.

 

To answer your question, No I do not think it was disrespectful. But on the other hand, I probably would have left too.

[ForeverZer0 44]

I don't think it was disrespectful at all, and I mean no offense when I say that in my opinion your own ant-Christianity beliefs are what make you think it is. If the event to pay respects for those who died was conducted by a Hindu group, would you honestly expect them to pay their respects in any other way than Hindu? Of course not, that is their beliefs and that is how they will conduct it.

 

Is it disrespectful for a person of any religion to pray for an atheist? I think to even pose the question is a bit silly, and if it was any other religion than Christianity this topic would not even be here. They honoring the dead in the way they know how. Your getting up and leaving during the moment of silence sounds like the most disrespectful that you mentioned. The moment of silence is everyone's personal opportunity to pay their respects and say their prayers to whatever god they believe in, if any. You chose to give up that opportunity at your anger over the display of Christianity instead of thinking about why you were there.

 

Once again, I don't mean to anger you, I am just being blunt. I apologize if I sound a bit harsh, but I just cannot imagine myself being angry if I was at vigil paying respects to the dead, and allowing myself to even get remotely angry because it seemed to be based in a belief system other than my own.

[Marked 197]

I mean no offense when I say that in my opinion your own ant-Christianity beliefs are what make you think it is.

Well that is offensive because you're inferring that you know my beliefs and saying that I'm anti-christian.

 

If the event to pay respects for those who died was conducted by a Hindu group, would you honestly expect them to pay their respects in any other way than Hindu? Of course not, that is their beliefs and that is how they will conduct it.

What group? There's no religous groups here. So this doesn't apply.

I think to even pose the question is a bit silly, and if it was any other religion than Christianity this topic would not even be here.

For this reason I don't even need to reply to anything else you said, because you just think someone's being all anti-chritian. You clearly don't understand the topic so back and read it and if you feel like offering your opinion again feel free to do so, but this topic is about the inclusion of one is the exclusion of all others.

 

When say something like that, your post is completely disregarded in my mind. You can't read my mind so take my word for it, this topic has nothing to do with Chritianity. And I'm not going to state my beliefs or any proof that I am not anti-chritian or whatever because I feel that I don't need to explain myself.

 

a belief system other than my own.

It's not about me, its about the beleifs of the dead.

 

Your getting up and leaving during the moment of silence sounds like the most disrespectful that you mentioned.

Of course I didn't leave during the moment of silence, clearly I would never do that. My entire anger is based over repsect for the dead, and I was not the only ones to leave. Since you misread, I will assume you do not mean that I disrespected the dead.

 

Well, the color of your skin and your geographical birth location or current inhabited location do not automatically dictate which religion or beliefs you follow

Thats obvious and doesn't matter, the point is they do not all share the same beleifs.

 

But I would have to assume the event was held by Christian followers and maybe even organized or funded by the Christ Church, which would make sense why it was Christian themed.

Perhaps the name of the city is a bit misleading lol and the symbolic building in the city is called Christ Church, but i cannot elaborate on whether the event was sponored or not. I wouldnt think so but im not informed enough to make that call. The system here is so different from the US, and its not appropiate to explain it here other than its very unlikely the university has any religous affiliations.

[Jon Bon 43]

 

Thats obvious and doesn't matter, the point is they do not all share the same beleifs.

 

 

Perhaps the name of the city is a bit misleading lol and the symbolic building in the city is called Christ Church, but i cannot elaborate on whether the event was sponored or not. I wouldnt think so but im not informed enough to make that call. The system here is so different from the US, and its not appropiate to explain it here other than its very unlikely the university has any religous affiliations.

 

I am not from the US, so I am not sure how that is relevant. A human being organized that event, the money came from somewhere, and everyone has beliefs.

 

I stand by the statement that the event was obviously somehow affiliated(officially or unofficially) with the religion that was primarily themed. Whether it was the fact that the person in charge was a member of that religion or that the money came from a source affiliated with that religion, it was, again obviously, somehow tied into that religion, otherwise it would'nt be there.

Why? Because someone HAD to decide to include the things that made it themed towards said religion. Why would they settle on THAT religion, because someone who had pull/say wanted that religion present?

In any event, from what VERY little information you can give about the ceremony it seems that it was merely a show from that religion to honor the dead. I too would have stayed for the moment of silence and left after it got all preachy, but that's my beliefs and has nothing to do with which religion, I just don't like to be preached to.

[ForeverZer0 44]

...but this topic is about the inclusion of one is the exclusion of all others...

 

And with this statement you clearly show you are missing the point I was making. The very idea that you think it was disrespectful and your mind even goes there shows that you missed the point of the ceremony. That was my point.

 

How do you propose it should have been run? You clearly have a lot of complaints, but I have not heard what you think would have made it "respectful". Should they have had a prayer for every religion represented by the deceased? Should they have totally avoided anything religious whatsoever? That would be not be very genuine.

 

Is it disrespectful for a person of any religion to pray for an atheist?

 

I was never answered by the way.

[Marked 197]

I am not from the US, so I am not sure how that is relevant. A human being organized that event, the money came from somewhere, and everyone has beliefs.

Sorry, I generally assume members from this forum are. Religion is much more present in the US than here and not really tied in with any of our institutions.

 

I too would have stayed for the moment of silence and left after it got all preachy, but that's my beliefs and has nothing to do with which religion, I just don't like to be preached to.

That is when I walked away and this is tricky over a forum. The reason I walked away is because suddenly it became as if we were actually in a church, like "let us all thank god for our rescue efforts". It's not the religion, it was because it was conducted as if we all had the same religion, as if we had all walked into a church in a manner traditional with our shared faith, and of course (for me alone it seems) it was a belife not shared by all of the dead, for whom the ceremony was for.

The very idea that you think it was disrespectful and your mind even goes there shows that you missed the point of the ceremony.

To remember the dead and commemerate the one year anniversary?

Is it disrespectful for a person of any religion to pray for an atheist?

Absolutely not. Even if you were an atheist, you should be grateful. It's someone who does something in good faith (good intentions) and is thinking of you and doing what they think is positive following their own faith.

How do you propose it should have been run? You clearly have a lot of complaints, but I have not heard what you think would have made it "respectful". Should they have had a prayer for every religion represented by the deceased? Should they have totally avoided anything religious whatsoever? That would be not be very genuine.

There are actually tons of things that exclude religion. It would be impractical to have something done for all religions. I think perhaps a Chritian element would have been appropiate, even by itself, if it had not been focused primarly on chritian traditions and conducted without acting as if we all had the same beliefs. If it had been done like that, thats absolutely fine with me, and I would be very happy to see many other religions stand up and give a small speech or whatever according to their faith. Ideally, I would have liked to heard representatibes of at least 3 religions say something in respect for those who died who shared that faith.

 

Being conducted without any religion whatsoever would have been fine, and you may not think thats genuine because maybe you can't think of what else you would do, but there are many many things specific to New Zealand and Chch that could have occured. For example, we had a speech about the University and its triumphs, reflected on 2011 year and how we were all being lectured in tents while our buildings were out of comission, etc. etc. I'll stop there coz the longer this goes the less people are gona read it.

[Vinderex 1]

I can see where you're coming from, and even being a Christian myself, I'll admit that there are far too many who are a bit too zealous in spreading the faith and who fail to realize that they're not the only religion in the world. But ForeverZero has a point too. If the service was hosted by Christians, then I would expect it to be held in a Christian way. From what I've read, it sounds to me like the dead were still all given the same respect regardless of their possible nationality, that respect was simply given in a Christian way- but it's still respect nonetheless.

[Marked 197]

If the service was hosted by Christians, then I would expect it to be held in a Christian way.

Agreed, but it wasn't. It was hosted a University which is a very separate thing from any religions, espicially in this country.

and even being a Christian myself

I suppose most Chritians would say something similar, but when I made that post I wanted the thoughts of people of Chritian faith and didn't expect anyone to think what I was saying was against the religion.

I can see where you're coming from

I'm glad. I realize now how flawed my first post is, because the problems I have identified in my last post illustrate, the context and circumstances really cannot be properly conveyed in words.

[Jon Bon 43]

Agreed, but it wasn't. It was hosted a University which is a very separate thing from any religions, espicially in this country.

 

Human beings hosted it. Each with their own belief system. All events have some form of committee or group which organizes the event. Any of the 'christian themed' aspects of the event were discussed before the event itself. Each public speaker's dialogue was consulted and reviewed before said to everyone. For reasons like this it is apparent to me that somewhere down the line in the christian religion got involved. The only other possibility I can think of is that the group in charge of the event decided to include Christianity as the majority represented religion for your area. As even though you said religion is separate especially in your country, there would still be a majority religion.

 

In any case the christian elements did not magically appear and were in fact chosen to be included and were more than likely signed off on by more than one person involved in planning that event. For those reasons its apparent to me that this was a christian event. Furthermore I personally believe that with little research and questioning you could easily find out the reason for the inclusion of the christian religion. Start by finding out who organized the event, everything from there should be merely a factor of asking the correct questions.

 

I believe everything boils down to intent, and if you can find out why Christianity was included, then you can determine if it was truly disrespectful or not. But at first glance, as long as they weren't directly trying to convert people, then no, it wasn't disrespectful.

 

Is it disrespectful for a person of any religion to pray for an atheist?

As far as I(atheist) am concerned, no. For the reason that it's not disrespectful for any religion to pray for a member of another. Because their intent is not malicious nor harmful.

[Action Kasper 1]

i think it's disrespectful in any capacity for a system of control to be regarded as the ultimate truth of existence.