MMORPGs: Vs. The Class System

[Enigma 10]

While writing up a design document for an MMO, I ran into a conundrum. I aimed to combine an old Design Document from a team I used to work with that essentially evaporated with something that I had planned a while ago. The issue was that while they were both action battle systems when dealing with player classes I ran into a conflict.

ETTC, the one from my old team, was based off of the .hack series, there was a total of 14 unique class, including a jack of all trades class that could use multiple classes. Each of these classes had mastery forms.

The one I made by myself,END, was based off of kingdom hearts; the class system is eliminated entirely. Players are given a weapon similar to a keyblade that can be customized and modified to fit different roles. They can be anything from guns to scythes, and boomerangs. Players would choose to customize themselves to fit their play style.

 

This lead me to think of the actual necessity of the class system.

In ETTC, there were quest lines for the classes and lore that was class related, but even this is expendable seeing as its derived solely from the class system.

RMXP Unlimited, What do you think?

[Bob423 52]

hm...the class system sounds cool, but i don't usually like those tbh. on the other hand, the weapon thing would be nice, sounds like it would have more options than kingdom hearts, and i would probably like that one better.

[kellessdee 48]

I generally dislike the class system, and I'd say it's one of my main complaints about MMORPGs or even RPGs in general. I find it's too limiting in a game's potential.

 

Here are my personal issues with class systems:

 

1. How do you pick a class for your playing style? It often comes down to experimenting, but that can be a nuisance or boring as you have to create several characters. Often, you can't just get the "feel" for a class from a quick test, and requires many hours of learning how to play that class.

 

2. What if you change your mind? This happens to me a lot. I might, say, start out with wanting to play a "thief" style character (sneaking, etc.) but eventually decide I'd rather go with ranged combat. This issue is twofold, on one hand I want to build up my main character, but on the other hand want to play as a new character. I also, don't usually want to grind (grinding's another issue with RPGs, but I won't get into that) to build my new character, to get to the level of playing I had with my other character.

 

3. What if you want "both"? I like the "ranger" style class--a mix of close-ranged and far-ranged combat. However, most RPGs either don't provide this class type or even worse, they provide classes that can be proficient in close-ranged OR far-ranged, but not both. There seems to be some unwritten, physical law in RPGs where beings that are proficient at wielding blades cannot be proficient in shooting a bow. Why not? Why can't I decide to learn how to do the other, later down the road?

 

Usually, by the time these facts become a dilemma in playing a game, that's where I say "wait, I don't really like this game. Screw it" and give up.

 

Also, I generally don't play RPGs, partly because of these reasons and other issues I have with MMORPGs/RPGs.

 

So yes, drop the damn class system. I play games because in games, you can do "whatever" the hell you want...I don't like being told I can't do something, just because that's not my class.

[Moonpearl 32]

Just like kell said. Classes are not worth a coin in a gameplay perspective, that's just convenience for the game designer, who doesn't need to come up with a skill system or whatever which would determine what can be learned/achieved by some character and what cannot. Why try and think of a good learning system when you can have a character's progression completely determined in advance?

 

Moreover, classes are not just stupid, they're also unecological - no one in the real world is an archetype of their job. In my opinion, a MMORPG's strength lies (or at least should lie) in the human factor - all players are people, each with their own views and desires for personal achievement. Undermining the complexity of a person's character, which makes the fullness of a MMO, by forcing them to choose an archetype rather than let them build their own, unique combination of skills/assets/whatever, is almost crime against mankind. In a general manner, that's what I don't like about MMO - instead of giving people lots of freedom, as to let them make a machine world into something far more interesting, they just force people to play like machines. So you get to play with thousands of machine-like players, which essentially brings you back to playing a solo game with basic AI.

 

Sooo definitely drop this stupid, worthless class stuff.

[ForeverZer0 44]

Although I am not some big fan of class systems, they are far from worthless. They keep balance in a game, which if is too far either way will make the game suck. Too many people seem to not factor this when judging various game components, and simply assume it. In reality, this is one of the hardest design aspects to properly develop, especially when you give a large amount of control of it to the player.

[forcebreaker 0]

Although I am not some big fan of class systems, they are far from worthless. They keep balance in a game, which if is too far either way will make the game suck. Too many people seem to not factor this when judging various game components, and simply assume it. In reality, this is one of the hardest design aspects to properly develop, especially when you give a large amount of control of it to the player.

 

I like class systems!!! Ogre Battle 64 and FF5 are two that i think did it right. However, i do like the other one where i can compleatly customize my characters, better.

[kellessdee 48]

@fzer0: You have a good point, and I cannot disagree that balance is very difficult and very important (especially in Online/Multiplayer Games).

 

However, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I feel that the class system is the "easy" way out. It lets developers/designers ignore the true underlying cause of inbalance in games and then force the player into balanced roles. Instead of focusing gameplay around your "levels," "gear" (by gear, I mean the stats side of gear) and other arbitrary numeric "stat" systems why not base it off of something that's more naturally balanced?

 

Physics is a great inspiration for such naturally balanced physical systems. In a crude example--dagger vs. long sword. A dagger can easily be as sharp as a long sword, and thus (depending on how it hits the target) would easily draw the same amount of blood. However, someone with daggers will easily be quicker and more mobile than one with a long sword; but the long sword would have more force to "knock back" another person and have a longer reach (making the target more difficult to hit). Leather armor vs. steel plated armor. Leather armor again, would be less restricting in movement but easier to get past. Steel plated armor would be more restricting, but more difficult to penetrate. Etc.

 

Next, in a class system, you need to work hard at ensuring EVERY class is balanced; so that Say a warrior vs mage isn't unfair, and thief vs. warrior isn't unfair, etc. But does one not also have to ensure that a warrior vs. warrior is also not unfair? With no classes, EVERY player is on the SAME level as every other player. Then, focus can be diverted to balancing the other aspects of the game and the players get a huge freedom. Also, then you allow players to change their mind later in the game without having to start over.

 

But really, my argument is incomplete. I only touched on the things I dislike about class systems, but in reality for my solution to work properly, one probably should also drop the arbitrary-number-based-stat systems, and level systems. Make the balance around how GOOD the player is at the game, not how many hours they spent grinding away. God forbid that a player who has played for 20 hours could POSSIBLY be better at something than someone who has played for 60 hours. God forbid that a player who has played for 20 hours can access the same parts of the game as someone who has played for 60 hours. And god forbid that a player can change their mind on how they want to play (after 60 hours), but NOT be forced to start completely over and do the same old boring repetitive tasks to get back to where they were.

 

[sorry for the overload on sarcasm, but this is basically why I rage quit 99.9% of MMOs. I don't have time to play countless hours on end, why can't I just drop into a game for a couple hours, enjoy the game and exit? Why must I be forced to endlessly grind just to do something trivially meaningful in the game? I go to work for money and I play games for fun. When I play MMOs, I almost would rather go to work. At least they pay me for the boring repetitive tasks I am forced to perform.]

 

Of course, I will give class systems this: they add an interesting dynamic to teamwork. Having to assemble a team of various complementary abilities is a cool concept. Of course, this can translate into non-class based systems as well.

 

Finally, I'd just like to point out, I probably actually wouldn't truly advise any developer to take this route. Just like I wouldn't actually advise a developer to make a shooter that is radically different than Call of Duty. If you want players and you want some kind of revenue, you better make something that follows these formulas. The games are successful for a reason--that's what the majority wants. I don't know many people who could ever imagine an RPG where they couldn't get to level 99 (or something arbitrary like that), find the "Sword of 1000 tears" and "pwn nubs" (or whatever they do in MMOs these days) because they had more free time than the "nubs" to acquire such things. And, a lot of people like the class system. Forcebreaker does, and I know many people who like that concept.

 

And it makes sense--paradox of choice and all. Sometimes it can be easier just to be told what you have to do, than being told "well, do whatever you want!"

 

My real point, is that class systems are not the only way to balance a game, but no way is necessarily "the best" way. That's too subjective, what I proposed is how I would like to play games; which doesn't mean everyone else wants to play games like me. This is why I need to be careful with my sarcasm, I don't mean to imply my opinion is superior. Maybe one day I'll get my drop in MMO that I don't need to devote my life to just to enjoy. I like what Guild Wars 2 proposed, in organized PvP situations, all players are given max level, top class equipment, etc. That might be an even "easier" way out of balancing, but I like the idea of PvP where everyone has equal opportunity and it's how good you are at the game that does the talking; not how you got lucky and discovered the rarest weapon drop in the game, that essentially beats out any other weapon.

 

I think Moonpearl put it very well about how I feel about MMORPGs, it often ends up feeling like I'm just playing a single player game, where you can sh*t-talk the AI and they actually respond. As fun as that is, I don't think it makes up for the flaws.

[ForeverZer0 44]

I agree class system are the "easy" way out, but as far as RPG Maker games, I would recommend this as the way to go. I don't say this because it is in anyway better, because I believe the opposite. Its the very medium itself, and the lack of experience, as well as manpower to correctly do it the other way. None of us are professional game makers, nor do we have the experience or resources available as one would. Although there may be an exception or two in the entire RM community, its safe to say we are all merely hobbyist. You have to really know what you are doing to design a full customization system that will not throw off balance, and I have yet to see it in an RM game.

 

Although I do not mean this to dissuade someone from trying and making a liar of me, its meant to make one aware that you are fighting a uphill battle. If such a system is implemented in your game, it becomes a make it or break it factor. I would at least advise one really researches some current systems out there in professional games to see exactly how it is done. It is far more complicated than it appears to be on the surface. Looking at the final result, it may not seem so bad, but when you get down to the nitty-gritty and really start picking it apart, factoring in a plethora of variables, it becomes apparent how much time was put into getting it right.

[kellessdee 48]

Actually, I couldn't agree more. I think that's something that a lot of us are too quick to forget--we're only hobbyists. And more importantly, we're generally "solo" hobbyists. To go down a more complex route (such as my suggestion) would require a proper team and a lot of time/devotion. I'm sure it would even be possible to utilize a class system in a way that is unique and works well, while still giving the convenience of being able to tweak the balance quite well.

 

While ambition is nice, we can't be good at EVERYTHING (unless you are Pixel and you made cave story, but my theory is that he isn't human), and putting together a reliable team isn't easy. It doesn't help if there's no consistent paychecks either. It's tough choosing between being ambitious and being realistic.

 

Plus, if we're talking MMORPGs, one needs (or should have) a proper server setup and one that can handle what the game is going to allow. I guess, I'm kind of a "hopeless romantic" (if you will) when it comes to the game industry.

 

I'd love to see someone pull it off though and bring something new to the table.