FranklinX 37 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 There's always the debate whether or not porn should be legal. Presidential hopefully Romney has publicly stated he wants ban porn. Personally I think it should be legal. :) In recent years porn companies have created "rape" porn. This isn't real rape. These are porn movies made with real pornstars. These movies are 100% roleplay. Anime porn is most famous for rape porn. My friend loves watching anime because of the story. he said he wouldn't mind watching anime porn. He said watching it would only be for the story and not the sex. He refuses to watch it because most anime porn is about rape fantasy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Although I personally believe it a strange form of roleplay, what are the grounds to ban it? Because rape is criminal? How many action movies do you know of that don't depict some sort of killing? Killing is criminal, so as you can see the logic doesn't work. I understand that it is quite loathsome for most to know that people like to watch fictitious rape. There is also porn of 18+ year old women, who make themselves look like children so that pedophiles can have their own form of legal porn. Yes, this stuff is disgusting to most people, myself included, but it is no business of a government to tell someone what they can/can't watch. There is already far to much stuff under government control that should never be, let's not make any more. Its like this: If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't like watching people have sex with horses, therefore I do not seek it out. If my neighbor does, that's his business. So long as he ain't making moves on my dog, I could care less, although I admit my opinion of him might be a bit different... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigace360 38 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 What happens in someones house is there business as long as its not actually happening in reality where I have to call the cops. Controlling what people watch is taking away self-control. Pretty much what ForeverZer0 said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrimsonInferno 35 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Unless real rape occured in the porn, then no, it shouldn't be. Its just like all the other themes the porn industry has and uses. So unless it actually harms someone (e.i, not consented sex), then no. I dislike Romney, by the way. I tried to really see his views and try not hate them so much, but he comes off as a sexist, racist (any more), and a war-mongering bigot. Edited July 12, 2012 by CrimsonInferno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken Messiah 20 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Porn is just like alcohol, people are going to find a way to it, regardless of the law. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Because rape is criminal? How many action movies do you know of that don't depict some sort of killing? Killing is criminal, so as you can see the logic doesn't work. I see 2 flaws with this logic: first of all the killing is completely fake, everyone knows its fake, often its unrealistic, and generally (but not always) its not so gruesome. But with rape porn where actual sex and penetration occurs, the only then that is different is a mental state: the women is consenting and pretending she is not, and you cannot tell. No doubt there is actual video of women being raped. That's a difference, but I don't think it matters anyway because most people will know its fake. And the second flaw is that just because the government has one thing wrong, doesn't mean they should make another. There is also porn of 18+ year old women, who make themselves look like children so that pedophiles can have their own form of legal porn. ...And one thing leads to another. Has anyone considered that rape porn is creating a greater risk of actual rape in the community? Also bestiality porn is already illegal (at least here) because the animal can't consent and thus its rape. Also anime porn, yawn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranklinX 37 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Also anime porn, yawn. I'm guessing someone has watched it and it bored him. I tried watching anime porn. It was a very bad experience. The video started with a story and then the guy started to rape the girl. I can't handle watching blood and sex. Not my thing. I did some research and that's when I found out that most anime porn is rape. I wonder why the majority of that genre is rape........... I do remember the Japanese raping Chinese women to death during WW2. I wonder if there is a culture connection. Edited July 12, 2012 by RATED-RKOFRANKLIN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Bon 43 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 I wonder why the majority of that genre is rape. I am no historian but I believe it has to do them being sexually oppressed for a really long time as a society and were then eventually 'given' freedom (liberal democracy) and that was recently, less than 60 years ago. What we know as 'Japanese Culture' today is not what it was, say a mere 80 years ago, as far as how they practice things. The whole 'honorable Japanese business man' is a 'new concept', one they made for themselves, and paved through an unconditional surrender during World War II. They have been through allot as a society, and some alive their today still remember how it once was. Has anyone considered that rape porn is creating a greater risk of actual rape in the community? About as much as preventing or allowing anything causes anything else. Yes we are creatures of learned behavior and of opportunity, but that doesn't change who we are. A rapist is a rapist, they don't need to see it first to then want to do it. Like a thief or a murdered needs to be shown how to take, or kill, nope they just want the end results and take it through whatever means, they need not be shown. Some girls enjoy that type of 'role play', so as far as I am concerned two consenting adults can do whatever they want to each other, as long as it causes no unwanted permanent harm to them or those around them. If they want to record it and others want to watch, then that's their prerogative, as is free will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 I'm guessing someone has watched it and it bored him. Are there any males here that haven't? We've all seen stuff, doesn't necessary mean I went look for it. Some girls enjoy that type of 'role play', so as far as I am concerned two consenting adults can do whatever they want to each other, as long as it causes no unwanted permanent harm to them or those around them. If they want to record it and others want to watch, then that's their prerogative, as is free will. There is an interesting English case called R v Brown where the court had to decide whether or not people could do harm to each other voluntarily. This was a sexual thing where they tortured each other I think, I didn't read the case. But here's an argument: if grievous bodily harm is a crime, would should someone get away with it just because the other person consented? Are you allowed to kill someone if they wanted you to? I guess there's a line that needs to be drawn. In my opinion, two consenting adults cannot do whatever they want to each and other and its in the best interests of society that a line be drawn. The world is full of impressionable and stupid people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Bon 43 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 if grievous bodily harm is a crime, would should someone get away with it just because the other person consented? Are you allowed to kill someone if they wanted you to? I guess there's a line that needs to be drawn. Body piercings, tattoos, and general body modification. I have a tattoo and piecing, I didn't do them myself, I enjoy them now, but heck they hurt then, and it's 'permanent'. In my opinion, two consenting adults cannot do whatever they want to each and other and its in the best interests of society that a line be drawn. The world is full of impressionable and stupid people. Two consenting adults can do whatever they want to each other, as long as it causes no unwanted permanent harm to them or those around them. In any free country. That's free will, whatever your beliefs are, it's not a free will movement to force them on others. You are free to believe it, you are not free to make others believe it to. People should not be 'forced' to have the "best interests of society", that is ANTI free will. They should be AND ARE given the choice, that is called free will. No harm equals no fowl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Two consenting adults can do whatever they want to each other, as long as it causes no unwanted permanent harm to them or those around them. Oh I missed that in your last post. That's the line you draw. It should be illegal to go beyond the line the courts deem to be in the best interests of society. People should not be 'forced' to have the "best interests of society", that is ANTI free will. They should be AND ARE given the choice, that is called free will. I think you misunderstand what I mean by the best interests of society. I'm talking about criminal acts. What does society deem undesirable conduct. That should be forced on peope. For example, don't kill people. If this isn't forced on people, then people get murdered a lot. What do you even mean by free will? Is law against free will? I find the concept too Americanized. I'm free to do what I want, so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Bon 43 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Not every 'free country' has the same free will, and some people in some free countries want to push their beliefs on people when there is no real reason to force others to do stuff unless safety is concerned. I'm free to do what I want, so... Really? Walk outside naked, cause no direct harm to anyone, do nothing other than wear no clothes in public. Then tell me you are free to do as you please. As long as it's not a matter of safety, there should be no law and people should be free to do as they please. That is free will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
totalsticks 1 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) What's right and what's wrong are just opinions of an individual. I personally believe in Vigilante Justice, but others will disagree. Each individual has the choice to decide for themselves what is right and wrong, and whether or not the consequences, good or bad, are worth pursuing. But, as Forever Zero said: it is no business of a government to tell someone what they can/can't watch Or read, write, feel and think. I believe moral issues will always be hot topic, because morality is just an opinion and just like people on the planet, there's billions of opinions out there and not all of them are the same. Total Sticks does not endorse, condone, or support non-consensual sexual activities. Edited July 12, 2012 by totalsticks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightmareFelix 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 I don't know about walking outside naked, Jon. Reminds me of this Vandals song that says if you think you're free, try walking into a deli and urinating on the cheese. Theres a huge difference between freedom and anarchy. Nakedness has apparently offended people since Genesis was written, and it's been reinforced by the fact that people who run across soccer fields in the buff or stumble out of bars with their pants around their ankles usually, at least here in the States, aren't people most folks really want to see naked, and thats generally why public acceptance of public dangliness hasn't... erm... Gone up. I used to not believe people were so influenced by what they watched, until I really started watching them. Until I noticed that women who listen to country music are now more proud to act like rednecks and destroy someone's car because they got cheated on than they've ever been in another generation. Why is that relevant? Because country music females in my generation song about taking their ex's stuff or in a LOT of songs, beating them up or killing them, for cheating. Women start believing that just because the law doesn't like it doesn't mean it isn't the right way to feel or act. I feel like half the reason they're being cheated on in the first place is the images in popular music. We have crappy alt rock bands like Hinder who elevate cheating to be dramatic or, in their case, calling the "other" girl an angel. Angels don't become homewreckers. Then we have hip hop, which, in its mainstream incarnation, in my opinion has idolized all the wrong things since the 90s, in just the right way to basically keep blacks from ever moving up in the social ladder. They're encouraged to spend all money right now on flashy cars and swag, encouraged to survive on huge music dreams or nothing, and encouraged to have a self image oriented toward gang life just to believe they've been "through it all" by the time they're sixteen, and since theres no incentive or message to make it through life the conventional way, graduating high school becomes less important/likely. And yes, I feel like the media people are exposed to is directly responsible for influencing these behaviors. So throw rape porn on top of Fifty Shades of Gray and you've got one great big American ideal that while rape is still illegal, it's just the way you are, and it's only illegal because the man is keeping you down. I don't know how it works in you guys' necks of the woods, but if I know my country and how bad we are at stuff, that's fairly accurate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 You have control over what you allow to influence you. If you watch rape-porn, then go rape someone, it is ludicrous for you to blame it on the porn. The problem is not with the porn, its with a total lack of personal responsibility for one's own actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightmareFelix 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Sounds like my country at least. I don't think it should be illegal, but I do think any site that focuses on it should have a section of the site where each girl explains on video that she is a model, performing voluntarily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 12, 2012 3 days ago Google's been taking down the youtube mp3 converters. Saying it's some new forum of copyright which of course is BS. I could really get into all this government control and new garbage laws they put out to further oppress us and limit are choices in life. The MP3 decoder is under copyright protection. This isn't any type of oppression, its protecting the rights of the copyright holders. If you want to use MP3 format in a commercial product, you have to pay for it. Many do not know that, but while developing ARC, we ran into this issue. I see 2 flaws with this logic: first of all the killing is completely fake, everyone knows its fake, often its unrealistic, and generally (but not always) its not so gruesome. But with rape porn where actual sex and penetration occurs, the only then that is different is a mental state: the women is consenting and pretending she is not, and you cannot tell. No doubt there is actual video of women being raped. That's a difference, but I don't think it matters anyway because most people will know its fake. And the second flaw is that just because the government has one thing wrong, doesn't mean they should make another. ...And one thing leads to another. Has anyone considered that rape porn is creating a greater risk of actual rape in the community? Also bestiality porn is already illegal (at least here) because the animal can't consent and thus its rape. Also anime porn, yawn. "Penetration" is an unrelated issue, and has nothing to do with the reasons people feel it should be banned. There are also many forms of "realistic" smut videos that depict murder in a non-Hollywoood format. They are made to appear real and homemade. I don't feel this is really a valid counter-argument. I also did not say that the government should not ban it because of past mistakes. I said they should not because it is the business of a government to do so. If you think it is, then your idea of the purpose of government is a bit off, although we do come from different countries, so that argument is obviously only applies to your form of government and its founding principles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrimsonInferno 35 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 ...And one thing leads to another. Has anyone considered that rape porn is creating a greater risk of actual rape in the community? Also bestiality porn is already illegal (at least here) because the animal can't consent and thus its rape. Also anime porn, yawn. @ the bolded: I had not considered that. Well, then I must say I'm mixed on my views about this now.... @the underlined: Poor animals. :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polraudio 122 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 When something is Illegal people tend to do it more than when its legal. Keep it legal or people will start doing rape to fill their needs. Theres my 2 cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranklinX 37 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 When something is Illegal people tend to do it more than when its legal. Keep it legal or people will start doing rape to fill their needs. Theres my 2 cents. People do rape to have power over someone. Rape is rarely about sex. It is about control and power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 Ask for "increasing risk", that is a bullshit excuse for someone to do, and the very idea that it would be is a predominate problem with today's society. Nothing is ever anyone's own fault anymore, its all because of some external reason that was out of the person's control. That way of thinking seriously pisses me off. "I molest children because I was molested" "I do drugs because I used to see my Dad do them" "I murder prostitutes because I didn't have a father growing up" These are the kind of stupid excuses that fill our ears that people give. They can be influences possibly, but not excuses. Society as a whole needs to learn that they are responsible for the actions they make. No one else is. No history of growing up is. It can provide a bad influence, and possibly make it a harder decision-making process than someone who did not have such experiences, but you CHOSE to allow it to influence you into your actions. That is a conscious decision. 99.9999% of people KNOW that what they are doing is wrong when they are doing it. If they have that knowledge, and do it anyway, how can they possibly blame it on something else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marked 197 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 I skimmed so sorry if I missed some points. Ask for "increasing risk", that is a bullshit excuse for someone to do, and the very idea that it would be is a predominate problem with today's society. Nothing is ever anyone's own fault anymore, its all because of some external reason that was out of the person's control. That way of thinking seriously pisses me off. That's all fun and games, and of course its a bullshit excuse, but its a legitimate fact of causation. There is an increased risk with it, that's just common sense. That's all I'm saying. The weight that it carries in the reasoning for legislation is a matter of opinion and I was merely proposing the idea and not giving my opinion on it :P . Either way, the law wouldn't take it account and the person should be held fully reasonable for his actions (depending on your jurisdiction, I guess). "I molest children because I was molested" Which is why he did it: causation. Thus make it illegal to deter the act. But its illegal for other reasons, this example is completely different from the rape porn situation so no argument there. Really? Walk outside naked, cause no direct harm to anyone, do nothing other than wear no clothes in public. Then tell me you are free to do as you please. As long as it's not a matter of safety, there should be no law and people should be free to do as they please. That is free will. This is a great of example of what I'm talking about. I'm free, you're Canadian so you're probably free. If you really want your freedom to be compromised, try being a woman in saudi arabia. Firstly, I don't want to walk outside naked lol its winter. If I did though, I could because I can do that on my property. This is not a lack of freedom, there are solid policy issues for making this a crime. I would not want genitals of adults exposed to my children in a public place. Do you?.... This is what you have to understand about "free will". Humans are animals, and civil societies cannot exist without drawing a line in the sand on what we can and cannot do. If we had full freedom, we'd return to being animals; kill each other, steal from each other, etc. Therefore, human societies need to be deprived of freedoms. Maybe your perception of your own free will Canada is different. I certainly have perceptions of the US citizens freedoms (or lack of) with their terrorist legislation (among others). But I walk around my country with the perception that I am fully free to do what I want and enjoy a civilized society. You may think you should have the right to do certain things. Think about the lowest people (as in bad people) in our societies and how they may take advantage of these things. We need to legislate to protect all members of our society and accommodate for the lowest common denominator. Lastly, as someone who's studied a bit of law (including your jurisdiction) there's a lot of policy reasons you need to consider before stating the law has no place if matters that don't involve safety. Like a lot. Matters of principle and practicality too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 13, 2012 *tsk* Out of all the things of course you will choose the one I was most obviously wrong in and on purpose mind you. I wasn't pretending to be right about that earlier quote and nor was I ignorant to what an mp3 converter was at the time &/or the situation. That isn't what it sounded like. My reason for having it be there is simple I was showing my concern and giving my obvious small but short opinion on the matter clearly ...as this further makes it not sound like... If you want to impress me with your knowledge and or say I'm incorrect about something. Try taking me up on the topic at hand with my last post. And give me your opinion on the matter. I believed to have rapped this up with simple logic. Already but it seems you purposely avoided it obviously and for good measure since I already had that other comment up Aha. If you don't agree by all means~...try me. At least there I can say I gave the issue some thought and thus am right. I'd love to see you prove that wrong. Of course if you can. Not quite understanding the hostility here, but you're asking me to counter your argument when you basically said you thought what I did. How am I supposed to "prove that wrong"? It appears to me like you are mad and trying to pick a fight because I made a minor correction to a small comment you made. I didn't "avoid the topic". You said some unrelated stuff about government oppression, and then "ForeverZero summed it up". Hard to "debate" that. Should I now take the opposing side and try to prove myself wrong? Is that what you are asking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverZer0 44 Report post Posted July 14, 2012 Cool story, it almost makes sense. I might just not be smart enough to understand, in fact, I am sure of it. Either way, I'm glad I could teach you something about MP3 decoder copyrights. Its always nice to help out a fellow member. ;) I apologize if I caused you embarrassment by pointing out your incorrectness, that was not my intention. Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
