How NOT to help people on a forum.

[Saltome 16]

So I was just minding my own business, trying to find information on yet another bug in rpg maker, when google ran out of ideas and started giving me sites completely unrelated to the problem I was trying to figure out. But something peeked my interest, so I went inside looking to further my expertise, that's when I met them.

Let me introduce to you the biggest assholes on the internet...

http://www.pavilionboards.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-13726.html

If I ever met those scum suckers I would quit life.

I hate people like that so bad.

If you are just gonna be an asshole to someone who is looking for help, you might as well get the hell lost.

Out of 4 people who replied to the guy 3 did not say anything that even pertains to the damn question, and the 4th one didn't even have a clue what the question is.

[dolarmak 23]

Yeah, but you'll find guys like that pretty much every where. My motto is to ignore them, because I only need to endure their personality for a short time, they have to put up with their own stupidity for the rest of their lives lol.

[Marked 197]

Yet another reason everyone should join this forum. The doors are open ;)

 

The trolls are everywhere. The biggest RM forums were known for being assholes. I can find examples of other members coming here to fume about it. The issue is with moderation. If I see trolls, I just delete the post like it never existed. Problem solved. The trolls don't get fed and die.

 

I never got overly angry at internet people. You know what the people are probably like in real life. Not a fan of the ones who lie or assume a fake identity though, and talk to me like I don't doubt their deceit.

[Chief 30]

I dunno, trolling can be extremely fun. Plus, I didn't see anything wrong with the way they addressed him. His question was unclear, his grammar was painful, and they simply wanted to address the difficulty in the understanding of the issue before they could even address the issue.

[Saltome 16]

Oh his grammar was painful, was it? I suppose now people have to apologize for not being all knowing.

And I don't see how they were trying to understand anything. Only one of them asked a question, but I find if unbelievable that someone on a game development forum wouldn't know what an online client is.

As far as trolling goes, it's only fun when you poke trolls with a pointy stick... a sharp pointy stick.

[Chief 30]

Oh his grammar was painful, was it? I suppose now people have to apologize for not being all knowing.

And I don't see how they were trying to understand anything. Only one of them asked a question, but I find if unbelievable that someone on a game development forum wouldn't know what an online client is.

As far as trolling goes, it's only fun when you poke trolls with a pointy stick... a sharp pointy stick.

 

AS far as grammar goes, you go to school for a reason. You don't get to simply forget your lessons when the school day comes to a close.

 

And as for the online client, if you are so immersed in the RPG Maker world, and have never treaded into multiplayer, then an "Online Client" really could mean a few different things, none of which have clear parameters.

[Saltome 16]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the majority of the human population is not from english speaking countries? Hence not obligated in any way what so ever to speak fluent english. Further more you don't know how old the person is, they may not have had this "lesson" in the first place.

Besides correcting someone for making a mistake is one thing, telling him that he made one is another thing.

 

I can agree his question wasn't particularly clear, but seriously. Even professors can't write understandable school books, what do you expect from an inexperienced kid?

Further more, to structure your question properly, you need to know what is important to the problem and what isn't, but if you knew that you wouldn't need to ask the question.

[Chief 30]

His location was stated as Michigan. As for age, if you're too young to understand proper sentence structure, then you're too young to be engaging with strangers on the internet like that in the first place.

[Marked 197]

His location was stated as Michigan. As for age, if you're too young to understand proper sentence structure, then you're too young to be engaging with strangers on the internet like that in the first place.

I think internet users are going to get younger and younger. I support the use of proper English but, as Saltome said, a lot of people's first language isn't English and they can't be expected to have perfect sentences. Obviously no one should really get upset at them for not using proper English. Then how to distinguish such a person on the internet who is just young? It's hard to know if someone is fully capable of speaking proper English, so the standards can't always be so high.

[dolarmak 23]

His location was stated as Michigan. As for age, if you're too young to understand proper sentence structure, then you're too young to be engaging with strangers on the internet like that in the first place.

 

AS far as grammar goes, you go to school for a reason. You don't get to simply forget your lessons when the school day comes to a close.

 

And as for the online client, if you are so immersed in the RPG Maker world, and have never treaded into multiplayer, then an "Online Client" really could mean a few different things, none of which have clear parameters.

You clearly don't understand the state of the education system in the US or any English speaking country for that matter.

They don't teach how to speak or write proper English in the Primary or Secondary school systems anymore (thank you 'No Child Left Behind' acts), only those who get a Post Secondary education in English Literature can actually write a proper sentence. Hell they don't even teach kids how to spell any more let alone how to use proper punctuation. 99% of native English speaking people are still unable to use a bloody comma properly. Don't expect a miracle on the internet.

And if Grammar was such a problem then why should people get away with using acronyms like lol, brb and imo. The internet doesn't care for any one's grammar, and why should they. This isn't a writing contest, as long as you can be understood you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Personally I totally understood what he was asking for from his first post. Those who couldn't understand him should have just asked him to put more information up instead of attacking him like they did.

 

I dunno, trolling can be extremely fun. Plus, I didn't see anything wrong with the way they addressed him. His question was unclear, his grammar was painful, and they simply wanted to address the difficulty in the understanding of the issue before they could even address the issue.

If you can't see why attacking a person verbally is a problem, then you're part of the problem.

Bullying on any medium is wrong and will cause emotional damage to the person being bullied regardless of age, race or ethnicity. Flaming or Trolling isn't a healthy thing for both the bullied and bully. If you bully people it means that you've justified making other people unhappy to make yourself happier. Be it consciously or unconsciously, bullies think that if others are less happy than you then you will be more happy, but the problem is that it doesn't make you happier, it just makes other people unhappy. The truth is a bully is a miserable person who should focus on fixing the issue of their own unhappiness rather than making others unhappy. If more people would look at themselves and think "What makes me unhappy in my life, and I'll fix it." rather than hurting other people, this world would be a lot easier to get along in and more people would be happy.

Also by not stopping a bully you're perpetuating the idea that bullying is right. And if you have ever been bullied and were hurt because of it (physically or mentally) then you have even more of a reason to stand up and stop it. Letting the cycle of bullying continue has to stop.

There has actually been a link between the level of child bullying and gang violence/murder in adults. The higher the bullying is as a child, the higher the violence rises in those people when they become adults.

[Marked 197]

 

You clearly don't understand the state of the education system in the US or any English speaking country for that matter.

They don't teach how to speak or write proper English in the Primary or Secondary school systems anymore (thank you 'No Child Left Behind' acts), only those who get a Post Secondary education in English Literature can actually write a proper sentence.

For a moment there I almost thought you did that old 'murican "we're the only country in the world" thing. Lulz. There's a lot of English speaking countries in the world. I'll speak for my own, most of our primary schools here are public and we're taught just fine. As I recall that stuff is some of the first things we actually do. We know that before going into highschool, but build on it at the start and at the end you're learning how to write essays. You guys have these community college time wasting things going up there, but we certainly aren't spoon fed english at university. I certainty don't remember anyone telling me how to write proper sentences studying finance, or law. Anyway, if you can speak perfect english and you know all the letters of the alphabet, I kinda think you can probably type it out just fine.

 

I hate bullies with a passion. It's difficult for me to understand online bullying, but as we know it does affect the vulnerable. Most of us are mature and not stupid, but the vulnerable are vulnerable and stupid. To me its putting yourself in the situation to be bullied and its quite distinct from real life bullying. You want to say harden up to them, but you know I'm only 22 and I didn't get onto forums until I was 15, so it's the not the same for less developed minds. Like I say, they're stupid and society needs to protect the stupid when they're being stupid. All websites are owned by someone, I would like to see cyber bullying dealt with. I would be ok with administrators website's being punished (not the people themselves) for not ensuring proper moderation. I know that's off-topic here, just saying.

 

And dare I say, people who spend a lot of time on the internet may be more prone to having a less stable mind, or at least less self esteem.

[Chief 30]

The reason why I see grammar as a legitimate issue, is because I believe strongly in education. Learning more and bettering one's self should always be important. I realize the state of the educational systems, but that's no excuse for someones lack of ability. It's not hard to open a book. I learned how to read/write from reading all sorts of books. Your best teacher truly is yourself, sometimes.

 

"If you can't see why attacking a person verbally is a problem, then you're part of the problem."

 

Once more, That was not being verbally attacked. Let me tell you a story...

 

Once upon a time, I was a young kid (maybe 11) and had found a cool RPG Maker forum. This forum was populated by legends like Don Miguel (The original translator for RM2k) and this made me feel inadequate  There was one guy there especially that shot down absolutely everything I made. He told me that I would never amount to anything and that my work was garbage. He especially attacked my attempts at creating my own websites. At the time, I didn't know any HTML/CSS and so I was using things like bravehost, ucoz, etc. 

 

This one guy was so attacking in his words, that instead of making me cry like a baby, I took it as a challenge. I won't amount to anything? Really? Fast forward 10 years... I am an expert in my field of web design/front end development. I have been published by webdesign tuts+, Adobe reposted my tutorial on their facebook, I helped start my own successful company, and I attribute all of this to that one guy who tried to bring me down.

 

That is my issue with today's society. Someone makes fun of you, or says your work is bad? Suddenly he is now a bully and should be barred from using the internet? No. Without my "bully" I would not be who I am today. True story.

[dolarmak 23]

That is my issue with today's society. Someone makes fun of you, or says your work is bad? Suddenly he is now a bully and should be barred from using the internet? No. Without my "bully" I would not be who I am today. True story.

Society doesn't think that just because some one has an opinion it's bullying. If you have an honest opinion that's one thing, it's even better if you can suggest ways to improve the stuff you consider "bad" which is necessary feed back for a person to improve.

 

The reason I consider their replies as bullying because their comments are meant to deter and outcast the original poster for no reason other than to satisfy themselves. 

RPGM 2000 and 2003 are illegal.

 

In addition to what Jamos said, you better have paid for RPG Maker XP.

 

These comments were not necessary and were only posted to instigate a response from the guy. He wasn't asking where to download these clients, he was asking how to make an online game with RMXP and what scripts could help him.

Instigating a conversation like this is just to start a fight, and tho it's not directly bullying it opens up the floor for them to fight as soon as the guy responds in anyway.

[Saltome 16]

Hmm, things are certainly heating up in here.

 

I think internet users are going to get younger and younger. I support the use of proper English but, as Saltome said, a lot of people's first language isn't English and they can't be expected to have perfect sentences. Obviously no one should really get upset at them for not using proper English. Then how to distinguish such a person on the internet who is just young? It's hard to know if someone is fully capable of speaking proper English, so the standards can't always be so high.

It's not so much that people are getting younger, we are just getting older. :P ...And it's secretly eating us on the inside.

That's the source of elitism and aggression on the internet.

I can admit it's harder for me to take someone on the internet seriously when they can't even write correctly.

However telling people that they are "wrong" as they did, doesn't prove your point, it just shows a failure to communicate.

In that regard the guy was much more respectable than the people who responded to him, since he at least made an attempt.

 

You clearly don't understand the state of the education system in the US or any English speaking country for that matter.

They don't teach how to speak or write proper English in the Primary or Secondary school systems anymore (thank you 'No Child Left Behind' acts), only those who get a Post Secondary education in English Literature can actually write a proper sentence. Hell they don't even teach kids how to spell any more let alone how to use proper punctuation. 99% of native English speaking people are still unable to use a bloody comma properly. Don't expect a miracle on the internet.

And if Grammar was such a problem then why should people get away with using acronyms like lol, brb and imo. The internet doesn't care for any one's grammar, and why should they. This isn't a writing contest, as long as you can be understood you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Personally I totally understood what he was asking for from his first post. Those who couldn't understand him should have just asked him to put more information up instead of attacking him like they did.

 

If you can't see why attacking a person verbally is a problem, then you're part of the problem.

Bullying on any medium is wrong and will cause emotional damage to the person being bullied regardless of age, race or ethnicity. Flaming or Trolling isn't a healthy thing for both the bullied and bully. If you bully people it means that you've justified making other people unhappy to make yourself happier. Be it consciously or unconsciously, bullies think that if others are less happy than you then you will be more happy, but the problem is that it doesn't make you happier, it just makes other people unhappy. The truth is a bully is a miserable person who should focus on fixing the issue of their own unhappiness rather than making others unhappy. If more people would look at themselves and think "What makes me unhappy in my life, and I'll fix it." rather than hurting other people, this world would be a lot easier to get along in and more people would be happy.

Also by not stopping a bully you're perpetuating the idea that bullying is right. And if you have ever been bullied and were hurt because of it (physically or mentally) then you have even more of a reason to stand up and stop it. Letting the cycle of bullying continue has to stop.

There has actually been a link between the level of child bullying and gang violence/murder in adults. The higher the bullying is as a child, the higher the violence rises in those people when they become adults.

For a moment there I almost thought you did that old 'murican "we're the only country in the world" thing. Lulz. There's a lot of English speaking countries in the world. I'll speak for my own, most of our primary schools here are public and we're taught just fine. As I recall that stuff is some of the first things we actually do. We know that before going into highschool, but build on it at the start and at the end you're learning how to write essays. You guys have these community college time wasting things going up there, but we certainly aren't spoon fed english at university. I certainty don't remember anyone telling me how to write proper sentences studying finance, or law. Anyway, if you can speak perfect english and you know all the letters of the alphabet, I kinda think you can probably type it out just fine.

 

I hate bullies with a passion. It's difficult for me to understand online bullying, but as we know it does affect the vulnerable. Most of us are mature and not stupid, but the vulnerable are vulnerable and stupid. To me its putting yourself in the situation to be bullied and its quite distinct from real life bullying. You want to say harden up to them, but you know I'm only 22 and I didn't get onto forums until I was 15, so it's the not the same for less developed minds. Like I say, they're stupid and society needs to protect the stupid when they're being stupid. All websites are owned by someone, I would like to see cyber bullying dealt with. I would be ok with administrators website's being punished (not the people themselves) for not ensuring proper moderation. I know that's off-topic here, just saying.

 

And dare I say, people who spend a lot of time on the internet may be more prone to having a less stable mind, or at least less self esteem.

I do remember teachers trying to teach us proper sentence structuring when I was little, but that didn't do much good. I was like 20 when I understood what they were trying to say, because I derived it on my own. And that never prevented me from writing correctly.

And that sums up my experience in the educational system, I think being taught the wrong things is a bigger problem than not being taught at all.

People always say how stupid kids are today, but they only know what they have been taught. They are taught conflicting or incomplete facts, that's why they get confused and end up sounding weird.

 

I really can't complain about bullying either, I've been there. But it made me stronger and I certainly don't go around committing mass murders.

If anything it allowed me to focus on myself rather than chasing after people's approval.

The source of violence isn't violence, it's immaturity. People just take action before they comprehend the result of those actions.

I'm all for trusting your instincts and listening to your heart, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to them.

 

The reason why I see grammar as a legitimate issue, is because I believe strongly in education. Learning more and bettering one's self should always be important. I realize the state of the educational systems, but that's no excuse for someones lack of ability. It's not hard to open a book. I learned how to read/write from reading all sorts of books. Your best teacher truly is yourself, sometimes.

 

"If you can't see why attacking a person verbally is a problem, then you're part of the problem."

 

Once more, That was not being verbally attacked. Let me tell you a story...

 

Once upon a time, I was a young kid (maybe 11) and had found a cool RPG Maker forum. This forum was populated by legends like Don Miguel (The original translator for RM2k) and this made me feel inadequate  There was one guy there especially that shot down absolutely everything I made. He told me that I would never amount to anything and that my work was garbage. He especially attacked my attempts at creating my own websites. At the time, I didn't know any HTML/CSS and so I was using things like bravehost, ucoz, etc. 

 

This one guy was so attacking in his words, that instead of making me cry like a baby, I took it as a challenge. I won't amount to anything? Really? Fast forward 10 years... I am an expert in my field of web design/front end development. I have been published by webdesign tuts+, Adobe reposted my tutorial on their facebook, I helped start my own successful company, and I attribute all of this to that one guy who tried to bring me down.

 

That is my issue with today's society. Someone makes fun of you, or says your work is bad? Suddenly he is now a bully and should be barred from using the internet? No. Without my "bully" I would not be who I am today. True story.

I do agree that there are positive effects of bullying, but it's a sensitive situation. In the wrong circumstances it can destroy a person.

When I was younger I spent a good deal of my time just helping people who had low confidence, I know how they think.

And let me tell you, people see their lack of confidence and only push them down further.

They have great potential, which they can't unravel just 'cause there isn't anybody who can say "good job, you are awesome".

 

Society doesn't think that just because some one has an opinion it's bullying. If you have an honest opinion that's one thing, it's even better if you can suggest ways to improve the stuff you consider "bad" which is necessary feed back for a person to improve.

 

The reason I consider their replies as bullying because their comments are meant to deter and outcast the original poster for no reason other than to satisfy themselves. 

 

These comments were not necessary and were only posted to instigate a response from the guy. He wasn't asking where to download these clients, he was asking how to make an online game with RMXP and what scripts could help him.

Instigating a conversation like this is just to start a fight, and tho it's not directly bullying it opens up the floor for them to fight as soon as the guy responds in anyway.

Actually Mak that's exactly what society thinks... and that's why we are in such a mess. Nobody can do anything because someone else takes offense at it.