National Security Agency

[FranklinX 37]

The NSA has gathered many records from American citizens. They have records of emails, phone calls, text messages, etc. Some Americans are outraged and believe their privacy has been invaded. Obama argues that this is necessary for national security. This is mainly to prevent terrorism. However, I think it is also used to stop sex trafficking and online child porn. 

 

I don't have a problem with this. It's not like the government is going to come to your house if you are watching legal porn. No government agent is going to publicly post your phone records. In other words the government doesn't care about your personal life. It's not going to publicly show your activity to anyone. 

 

What are your feelings on this matter? 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100800491

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/as-obama-defends-counterterrorism-tactics-he-finds-himself-in-bush-territory/2013/06/07/39bae3f6-cf82-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/07/obama-clapper-national-security-agency-leaks/2400405/

[Broken Messiah 20]

I don't really care for how companies and the goverment invade my privacy, as long as it doesn't become a problem for me.

[Marked 197]

It is obviously a complete breach of privacy, there's very little to be argued against that. But is it necessary for the US government to spy on its own citizens? Because it is the US, people want to bomb it and shoot each other up, etc. In my opinion, to make the US safer you have to lose your privacy. It just really is a bad situation, you have to lose your freedoms.

 

On the otherhand, while it is safer, how does it affect the individual in a country of 300 million? You have an extremely low chance of dying from what this prevents, perhaps those few lives are worth everyone's privacy? Recent events do make the perfect time for the US to legislate to get  yet another piece of the puzzle in controlling its people (as opposed to the people controlling government, aka democracy).

 

One solution to this issue is make all evidence in minor crimes inadmissible in court. The information gathered should only be used against terrorist and the like. Child porn doesn't quite reach the standard for me to give away everyone's privacy. People who have never got a parking ticket in their lives will disagree, but criminal law has to be balanced the rights of citizens you seek to enforce those crimes.

[FranklinX 37]

 

One solution to this issue is make all evidence in minor crimes inadmissible in court. The information gathered should only be used against terrorist and the like. Child porn doesn't quite reach the standard for me to give away everyone's privacy. People who have never got a parking ticket in their lives will disagree, but criminal law has to be balanced the rights of citizens you seek to enforce those crimes.

 

I think child porn does reach the standard. Rape is a serious offense. The amount of sex trafficked victims is more than the amount of people who die from terrorism. There are millions of people trapped in the sex slave. How are police agencies suppose to stop child porn if they are unable to use internet records of people who download and create child porn? 

[Marked 197]

Yeah that's right, a lot more people are going to die from crimes that aren't terrorism. But that's the same as a car accidents. I'm sure we both agree that terrorism is more serious though; if there are threats of bombs, explosions or whatever, the general population is going to be scared to walk down the street (that's why its called terrorism).

 

Rape and sex slaves etc are very serious. I think rape will happen anyway. I beleive a huge number of sexual offenses are family of friends who rarely come under suspicion until the victim speaks up. I also think criminals would merely adapt to avoid being caught. But I honestly think that decreasing rape, child porn and related offenses is not worth giving up a nation's privacy. It is not the only way. It may be a very effective way, but in civilized society's the line is drawn far far before that. If we wanted to stop all crime we'd just lock everyone up, wouldn't we? 

 

You may be willing to give up yours for that, but do you really appreciate the value of that right? Maybe you won't be charged with a criminal offense, but do you think your information won't be used for anything else? For example, if I'm a government who wants to keep my job, insider-trading privileges, etc., I'm going to use your information that I have access to so I know what issues matter to you.

 

EDIT: I just heard the US was doing it in secret anyway? Lol. They do what they want don't they. Not that people expect anything less. Apparently they're trying to get another leaker executed to set a precedent. You guys kinda remind me of China, but less honest about it.

[madanchi 18]

I'ts an absolute outrage, a complete intrusion of privacy. You can't trust the guys keeping all this data, also now that it's out what if hackers get through and steal all the data? How this got by UK laws too is pretty terrible....

 

All these years of people fighting and working so hard to keep this very thing from happening, it's a total disgrace. How they can use the 'against terrorism' excuse to utterly break down and demoralise everyones privacy is beyond me. We now even have Xbox One permanantly monitoring and listening to you in your own homes.

[CrimsonInferno 35]

I find it outrageous that they thought they could get away with this, and that they think they can spy on us simply because they want to stop terrorism. I'm all for stopping terrorism, but this is the wrong step to take.  This destroys our privacy. Simply because they aren't sharing the info, which is a lie, does not mean it is okay. And for whatever the cause is, it still doesn't make this right. This is why I cannot trust my government anymore, and why Obama should be impeached. This is just the newest addition to the scandals and lies this government and president has told us. It is time for us to dismantle the government and rebuild it.

 

It is as Benjamin Franklin said; those who are willing to give up libtery for a little bit of safety deserve niether.  Of course there are many paraphrased derivatives of this, but whatever!

 

Sorry if I don't many sense in this post, I am pretty angry about this.

Edited June 10, 2013 by CrimsonInferno

[Rajaat99 3]

It comes down to trust. Do I trust my government to have detailed records of my phone calls and e-mails? The answer is no.
It's not about terrorism, or child porn, it's about control. They're getting all the information about us that they can in order to use it to control us.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Rajaat99

[Bigace360 38]

I find it outrageous that they thought they could get away with this, and that they think they can spy on us simply because they want to stop terrorism. I'm all for stopping terrorism, but this is the wrong step to take.  This destroys our privacy. Simply because they aren't sharing the info, which is a lie, does not mean it is okay. And for whatever the cause is, it still doesn't make this right. This is why I cannot trust my government anymore, and why Obama should be impeached. This is just the newest addition to the scandals and lies this government and president has told us. It is time for us to dismantle the government and rebuild it.

Uh...I heard Fox news and CNN gives cancer. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

Also Ever heard of the Patriots Act?

 

The Patriot Act: Somehow this unconstitutional act has enabled the government to indecently invade human privacy. Put into effect during the post-9/11 Bush administration, it was intended as a form of public “protections,†by rooting out who may or may not be a witch, err, rather, terrorist among us. Defended as a national security measure, it strips essential human rights along the way, to where you wonder if it’s better to live in fear than not be free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

 

By your logic every president since George Washington (except Kennedy and probably 4 others) should be impeached for some type of scandal that could harm America's safety. Everybody wants Obama impeached like he's the first president to look bad. I'm sorry but everything was carried over from the Bush administration and so far the only thing Obama has seen doing something wrong was during that drone attack. I find that to be a really bad decision on his part.

 

Although I guess I can see why you can be a little mad. When Obama was a senator, he was against the Patriots Act. So what changed Obama’s mind? Obviously, being elected president makes people more comfortable with presidential power and less enthusiastic about limits on that power. It’s also possible that when Obama became president and began receiving intelligence briefings, he became more alarmed about terrorist threats and more willing to limit civil liberties to deal with them. In any event, it seems likely that if Obama were still in the Senate, he’d be joining Wyden, another senator, (who also signed the 2005 letter) in criticizing the NSA’s use of the Patriot Act to spy on millions of Americans.

[Rajaat99 3]

We haver more than a little right to be mad. Not only was Obama against the Patriot Act, before he was for it, he campaigned on getting rid of it!
Also, yes, he should be impeached for multiple crime, not just this one. Also, yes, many Presidents should be impeached for breaking the law. Being President should not grant extra rights.
It's time to hold government officials responsible for their actions.

[Heretic86 25]

People often make the mistake of thinking that if they do nothing Wrong, they have nothing to Hide.

 

Problem is that Right and Wrong are Subjective Terms.  What is Right for you may be Wrong for someone else.

 

The True Danger of the Invasion of Privacy like this results not from what is Right and Wrong, but the Difference of Opinion.

 

Imagine being a Christian in a very Anti Christian Country.  Do you really want everyone in that country to be able to find out that you're a Christian?  Try another one.  Applying for a new job is not illegal and it most certainly is not immoral by any means.  But guess who would have a problem with you applying for a new job?  Your current employer.  Apply for a new job then be fired because of it.

 

Privacy isnt the only thing thats going away.  Freedom of Speech is also heavily under attack.  So as soon as you say something that either supports the "Wrong Opinion" or does NOT support the "Right Opinion" (remember: Subjective), your ass is going to jail.  How many people have been imprisoned for saying things that have been taken out of context? 

 

Great.  Lets talk MOVIES.  Movie Producers and Script Writers often get visits from Authorities because of what they search for on line.  They do research on how certain crimes are committed, and they google that stuff, which leads the Authorities to their door.  Heard of a movie called White House Down?  How many times do you think the Script Writers were talked to by Authorities?

 

Lets take it to the next level.  When YOU express an Opinion that someone else doesnt like, do you want the Authorities kicking in YOUR front door in a Middle of the Night - No Knock Raid?  Its happened a lot more than most of you are aware of.  Do you really feel "safer" thinking that if you say anything about the ingredients in what passes for Food that you'll be the one that is charged with a Crime?

 

Dont think about the way that the world is right now. 

 

Think about the way the world will be in 20 years.  There is nothing illegal or immoral about being Jewish.  Unless of course, you lived in Nazi Germany.  In 20 years, is that the type of world that you want?  Where we have the potential for the New Hollocaust?  Where Govts execute people because they express any dissatisfaction with the world around them?  Where any violation of an End User License Agreement results in your imprisonment, even for "free software"?  What if you valued being able to take a Shower without a camera in your Bathroom?  Most falls that occur at home happen in the Shower.  Its all for YOUR SAFETY.  Dont you just feel "safer" now having that mandatory Camera in your Bathroom watching you while youre naked?

 

The Right to Privacy does not exist to protect Criminals from the Law.

 

It exists because the average person commits THREE FELONIES PER DAY.  Most of those alleged Crimes are Victimless, but those Victimless Actions are considered to be Felonies under the current Law.  Something as simple as not properly disposing of Expired Prescription Medicine.  Do we really think that these people who need the prescription medications to begin with are really so dangerous that they need to be incarcerated?  You might not, but you're not profitting from their Inprisonment.

 

The Prison Industrial Complex

 

There are new types of Corporations that are springing up all over the world called Private Prisons.  And they profit by incarcerating more people.  That creates an Incentive for them to have harsher and harsher laws passed that turn the ordinary man into the most serious criminal offender.  Is this really the type of world we want to have in 20 years?  Where a business is grown by finding new and absurd ways to turn regular people into criminals so they can be harvested like cash cows?  Do you really want it to be a Class 3 Felony to NOT FLOSS YOUR TEETH?  Give them an Inch, they'll take a Mile.

 

The Right to Privacy

 

The reason that Right is recognized as a Human Right is because of the potential Abuses of the Law.  The Law becomes heavy handed in order to profit or benefit.  Its like a Drug to them.  They give out more Speeding Tickets, so they can hire more Cops, so they can give even more Speeding Tickets, so they can hire even more Cops.  When Govt and Corporations have Unlimited Access to information about you, they can and will eventually exploit that and take advantage of every possible way to abuse you until you are bled dry. 

 

Obedience is NO Solution

 

Get it straight.  These people in power do NOT have your best interests in mind.  They want to milk you like a cow for everything that you are worth.  They want to pay you less and make you work harder than ever.  They want you to produce for them and leave you nothing in return.  They want it all and could care less if you have no shirt on your back and starve to death.  The powers that be are the Embodiment of Greed.  Yet, they tell you that Disobedience always causes others to suffer.  It does not.  You and me have the power to work whatever disagreements we have out for ourselves.  We do not need Govt to tell us to get along in order for us to get along.  We do not need Govt to regulate how we are allowed to interact for us to peacefully interact.  Obedience is NOT the Solution, in fact, it is the biggest part of the problem.  Vote for who we tell you to vote for, eat what we tell you to eat, buy what we tell you to buy, and most imporantly Think what we tell you to Think.  This might not be so bad if the powers that be genuinely had your best interests in mind.  But they do not and deep down, we all know that to be true.  And not everyone in power will abuse this, but too many will.  And they will Fine you as a means to bolster their Profits.  They Lie.  They commit Fraud.  They Steal.  They Poison your food because its cheaper.  They give you shit for Health Care because its More Profitable, and can only profit from the Sick.  You have no real power over them.  You can try to Boycott corporations, but you cant exactly Boycott a Govt ruled by Corporations.  If you try to resist when they take you for everything that you are worth, there is nothing you can do about it.  But they can do something about you.  Imprison you, and again make you Profittable to them.  They dont give a Fuck about you.

 

By now, you pretty much expect to get screwed by companies.  Its when you compain that you become a problem.  Thats when the Jackboots come for you.  What is demanded is that you all keep your mouths shut and remain blindly obedient.  You do not complain when your Mortgage Company triples the price of your Mortgage because youre now a "risk" when you get Laid Off through no fault of your own.  You are not allowed to complain when some service you pay for monthly goes up in price.  You are not allowed to complain about anyone in power, yet, you are encouraged to turn anyone in that you observe complaining about anyone in power.  You are expected to be Obedient.

 

For Evil to Triumph, all that must happen is for Good Men to do NOTHING.

 

In fact, doing NOTHING is what is Required by Law.  You are prohibited from engaging in any activity that you are not Licensed for.  Since it is obvious that the people are not smart enough to think for themselves, Laws need to be passed to require everyone to brush your teeth, floss, and mow their lawns.  People will be deemed to be not intelligent enough to do anything without supervision because of their failure to evaluate risks.  They will be Fined and or Imprisoned for any deviation from these requirements.  And they will be prohibited from even Thinking for yourself.  You are WRONG on EVERY account and only the State has the wisdom to know what is best for them.  And if they try to do anything about it, they will be considered Enemy Combatants, treated as Terrorist, and afforded no protections of the Law.

 

They will take your Privacy and you are Required to do NOTHING.

 

That allows them to shape the world that I've described.  Imagine for a moment if HItler had won World War 2.  What kind of world would we all be living in today?  Would it be a Utopia as Hitler had envisioned?  Or would it be something much much darker and sinister.  Is that the world that you want to give up all of your Privacy to help create?  Think not of the present, think of the Future.  Now imagine the world 20 years from now if Hitler and his Kin had remained in power all this time.  Nazi Earth.  Utopia or Apocolypse?  Your Privacy is being taken from you whether you choose to give it up or whether you dont.  And all that is required to enable the New Hollocaust and a New Nazi Earth is for you to do NOTHING to protect your Privacy and the Privacy of others.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Heretic86